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| I think it depends on the business. Maybe fixing 20 year old electronics might be hard, but it still work for (overengineered? underchanged?) herman miller aeron chairs. |
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| It is remarkably consistent, tourists go to McD's very often when short on time because they know almost exactly what they’re getting, even though they might be a 10h flight from their home. |
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| I was thinking the same thing.
So, how is that story going to help me? Apparently, I can't buy a sofa of this quality any more, and if I want it fixed, I apparently have to go to Canada. |
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| Title a play on Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower?[0]
Other cultures don't use sofas, and I'm curious if they were originally a thing for royalty (like flat green lawns and white bread and so many other "luxuries" we royal Americans went in for), and I would vote for leaving ours (IKEA, so not the worst in terms of PFAS coating and other toxins, but also not great) with the house when/if we move, and sitting on the floor again, which my spouse and I did early on, influenced by our time in Japan (and our relative lack of money). I appreciate this article about valuing local repair shops. I did the same with a pair of boots, and will continue to pay for such service, not least because I like getting to know craftsmen. [0] https://worldcat.org/title/parable-of-the-sower/oclc/2825552... |
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| Or wood stools/benches/chairs. Fabric was very expensive until relatively recently. A modern sofa would presumably have been an extreme luxury item not that long ago in historical terms. |
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| You're right, but I didn't realize that till later. Except for the original "Parable of the Sower" was from Jesus not Olivia. But I also thought of Olivia's first. |
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| I thought the "lifestyle business" negativity was chiefly around trendy businesses that are only viable due to being covertly subsidized, eg. by family money. |
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| One nice thing about IKEA furniture is that the price of an item is well connected to its quality, and they offer items in a range of quality levels, so there’s a trustable signal in the price |
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| Except he said:
> new leather sofas of the “not flat-packed sawdust and glue” variety quickly get into five figures five figures >= $10,000, not $5,000 |
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| It is a very "limited" warranty:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/files/pdf/40/04/4004a9de/seating_... If the sofa breaks, then sure it's covered. But it explicitly doesn't cover fabric or leather coverings -- and good luck trying to convince them that the foam padding has gone all flat. Whereas in my experience, how long a sofa lasts is determined precisely by how long the coverings and cushions last. (I've never in my life seen a sofa break.) So the IKEA warranty is irrelevant there. Your UPPLAND sofa may work great for 30 years in a guest room where it's sat on 5 times a year. But good luck getting it to last 10 years in the living room where the whole family is using it every day and kids are climbing all over it. (Of course, more expensive IKEA sofas do tend to last longer than the cheapest ones -- people are usually talking about the cheap ones.) |
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| > this is why humanity seems to have made major leaps in science and technology during and after military conflicts
Did it? I can't really find numbers on that. |
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| I'm reminded of what happened to Instant Brands. They made a series of popular electric pressure cookers, but instead of remaining a successful medium-sized business, they took on a lot of debt in an attempt to expand, then went bankrupt when interest rates increased. Previous HN discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36310733 It's disappointing to see, because the products were genuinely good. |
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| Lately I’ve been a bit depressed by startups I respect going down, most of all post.news which was a refined product developed in one and a half years by a moderate-sized team and funded by Scott Galloway and Andreessen Horowitz. The official statement was that it was not growing fast enough to make it as a consumer product:
https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/19/post-news-the-a16z-funded-... Though I think there could be more to it than that: (1) the full development of that site would have required cooperation from the news industry that isn’t easy to get and (2) I don’t think they got the word out well because despite star-studded founders and investors and my being interested in that sort of thing (to the extent of doing market research and product analysis for that kind of thing) I never heard about it until the last week…. And that’s for a business much more interesting and innovative that the comparable Threads or Bluesky. From the outside though it seems like 1.5 years is not a lot of time to exhaust the possibilities of growth for a site like that. (As I see it Reddit took more like 3 years for subreddits to become what we know) On the other hand there are the zombie unicorns. I have been watching Temu: I saw the ads, I bought what could be most of my halloween costume this year and two rolls of fox stickers (not sure if that was a mistake or a dark pattern) and a dragon figurine. Almost everything was smaller than I expected and afterwards I got a huge volume of irrelevant but seemingly personalized emails. I think they’re a paper tiger: I can be impressed by their advertising spend but they don’t seem like masters of marketing and algorithms to me. The of course there is Uber and the other ride hailing and food delivery services. Uber has spent over $25 billion on giving subsidized taxi rides and there is no end in sight. Even at American prices, $25 billion could have built a lot of subway or light rail but Uber won’t leave such a legacy. Or if it does it will be breaking the economics of both chain and independent restaurants who have reshaped their businesses around a delivery business for which the economics doesn’t really work. The strength of VC is it can make it bets like Temu and Uber but that can be very much a finger trap. |
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| It's not Denmark-specific. Hollowing out the middle has happened across every product and service class everywhere in the west. It's a broad problem, in no way limited to sofas. |
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| While this is true, there are billions of convenient examples everybody knows. Also there are things that have a lot less variables than a table.
I'm not convinced. (I don't thing so.) |
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| Thanks for biting. But I'm also serious.
Some evidence that I'm not joking, two more or less prominent examples... From Roger Penrose's "The road to reality", chapter 1.3 "Is Plato's mathematical world ‘real’?": "I am aware that there will still be many readers who find difficulty with assigning any kind of actual existence to mathematical structures. Let me make the request of such readers that they merely broaden their notion of what the term ‘existence’ can mean to them. The mathematical forms of Plato’s world clearly do not have the same kind of existence as do ordinary physical objects such as tables and chairs. They do not have spatial locations; nor do they exist in time." "Do Chairs Exist?" by Vsauce, ~11M views: https://youtu.be/fXW-QjBsruE "How" you ask.. I think we need to trace back when philosophers started to hit on that meme. I think the "multi-thousand-year furniture lobbyists" started to jump on the bandwagon from there and things co-evolved after that. I am determined to solve that humandkind-old mystery. |
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| you can also have the leather refinished instead of replacing it. they fill the cracks etc and touch up the "paint". I like this look more but ymmv depending what is available near you |
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| > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_plan
Doing a quick read: this appears to be the Gold Standard by another name. Irving Fischer is associated with it, and Fischer was a mentor/inspiration to Milton Friedman, who, amongst other things, gave us: > The Friedman doctrine, also called shareholder theory, is a normative theory of business ethics advanced by economist Milton Friedman which holds that the social responsibility of business is to increase its profits.[1] This shareholder primacy approach views shareholders as the economic engine of the organization and the only group to which the firm is socially responsible. As such, the goal of the firm is to increase its profits and maximize returns to shareholders.[1] Friedman argues that the shareholders can then decide for themselves what social initiatives to take part in, rather than have an executive whom the shareholders appointed explicitly for business purposes decide such matters for them.[2] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine You know, the philosophy that Boeing's management has been following the last decade or so. The post that you are replying to wrote: > The thing that seems to characterize the economy now is that businesses will violate your trust in order to make money. Under the ideology of Fischer and Friedman this is just fine. So I'm not sure putting forward an economic idea ("Chicago plan") by them would really help in preventing/reducing/rolling back 'Late Stage Capitalism' (or whatever) or accelerate its effects more. Probably the latter. |
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| "Look, all you need to do is educate yourself a bit on the engineering details of every individual kind of durable good that you will ever purchase..." |
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| Setting aside my shock at you invoking motte-and-bailey here, given that I'd apply it to your counterargument first, here are some concrete proposals:
- Ban most of the advertising as it's known today, recognizing it for the cancer on modern society that it is (see: [0]); - Make vendors pay for costs of disposal of their products; this would curtail the profitability of shit-tier products and planned obsolescence; - Institute a carbon tax; this will improve things across the board. -- [0] - http://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2019-07-31-ads-as-cancer.html |
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| The proposal is that it should be illegal to make couches with bad joins, yes. Or do so in a way that isn't completely obvious, rather than me having to check the actual join. |
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| I am so glad Tim (and thus Luxcious) are in the Lower Mainland. I don't need them currently, but it's nice to know it's an option. |
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| Economic growth by itself means nothing for the working class. Without redistribution it amounts to exactly zero improvement of their living conditions.
Below is a link to a news coverage of a study that claims to have shown that while poverty (as defined by the world bank) dropped spectacularly in 1980s China, the inability to afford essential commodities skyrocketed in the early 1990s, and didn't recover fully since. https://theconversation.com/chinas-capitalist-reforms-are-sa... |
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| > I’m not smart enough to figure out what the regulatory regime is that would ban most of what private-equity does and tilt the playing field in favor of resilient lifestyle businesses.
When I discovered a polity full of SMEs and resilient lifestyle businesses, I immigrated here. Some vague thoughts from a few decades of trying to figure out specifically why it seems to work so much better than the Old Country: Resilient family farms: that is indeed hefty regulation, as well as willingness to forgo the last percentage point or two of economic efficiency. Resilient lifestyle businesses: the apprenticeship system plays some role here, and I bet the same consideration to efficiency applies? I guess part of it depends upon who's making the investment decisions: - Owners are often happy to shave off a few percentage points in favour of intangible benefits. - Workers (here, the term includes outside management) are less happy, as they're agents, and a few points for the owner may be 20-50% of the agents' vig. - Finance types run at full efficiency or nothing, as their entire business is built around picking up nickels in front of the steamroller, you can't expect them to leave nickels around that are only in the path of tricycles. Final thought: if you want a lot of new businesses, fast, you're going to get "late capitalism" and the goods & services equivalent of row crops. If you've had your economy for some time and are just fiddling at the edges for growth, you can have a bunch of lifestyle businesses, the goods & services equivalent of orchards. (I once lived in a neighbourhood in the Old Country that still had corner stores, because it was older than the automobile, and although "late capitalism" prevents corner stores from arising in new neighbourhoods it's more or less neutral towards existing ones) EDIT: for exact identities, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39861369 and my comment history more generally, or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Scarry#Personal_life_a... Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuJ8yVCgSM (2017) |
Small business (or “lifestyle business”) vs big brand is often framed about being high quality vs cheap price, because in practice it often is. But in theory the two things are completely unrelated.
Yes fixing stuff is good for the planet. But big brands could offer customer service just fine if people wanted it.
Small business vs big brand is a problem of predictability. If you have many independent small businesses, NOT all of them will be good. It will be a mixed bag what you get in your area. OP has felt so fortunate with his local highly-skilled asian-owned small business that he felt compelled to write about it on the internet. Not everyone will be this lucky.
And in a world where information travels very fast (this is really the key point) this system is unsustainable, as there are really only 2 options: either people accept the fact that some neighbourhoods are served worse than others, or the take the car and make the travel up to the nice asian shop they read about on the internet, because that’s apparently worth it.
But, surprise, this second option doesn't scale. Because as soon as the nice asian shop goes viral, they realise they can’t keep up with the demand at all. And so they will probably refuse lots of customers. (Note, I’m not even considering the option they might increase prices)
In this sense, the derogatory “lifestyle business” comment makes sense, since I think it’s meant to highlight how elitist it is. It doesn't scale in the sense that it creates a race for who is able to cop the best option. When I need a sofa, I want to be able to “just” get a sofa. Simple and predictable. If the sofa is good quality, even better.