In my mind that’s a pretty substantial increase.

But i expect, once the media cycle dies down, it'll get paused too, and then ignored because can't admit that something didn't work out!

Actually I wonder who is this announce for? Considering the last one died after media hype as op noted.

I recall Apple making a lot of noise about Macbooks being manufactured here, but that they eventually got shipped off to China.

There was a ton of noise about Mac Pros being manufactured in the US, but sadly, I am not nearly as familiar with Apple after, say 2018*. Not even sure if they have a Mac Pro anymore. :X and if they do, I assume it's not the same model (the black trashcan), so it makes me wonder if they bothered retooling here, or quietly moved it somewhere else

* TL;Dr at some point it became clear to me Cook is Sculley 2.0. I date it to around walking around NYC and seeing an absurd amount of Apple News bus-stop ads. Services! (TM)

If Apple didn't take such an investment risk in China, then we'd all have Windows Phones now and Android would have been canceled long ago.

Bringing it back? The DNC pivoting to expand entitlements beyond sick, elderly and legacy civil rights victims to leverage economic downturns greatly expanded their political base in California and also played a major role in locking the door behind Apple, CISCO and others, leaving all the supporting manufacturing tech and processes to evolve elsewhere. Consider what happened when a billionaire tried to open up Tesla down the road from Apple's original Fremont manufacturing facility. Texas has grown rich building up as a California alternative, but doing more than moving people out of California, actually bringing back overseas operations that would have gone to California had it not devolved into an economic wasteland, required a powerful financial incentive and Trump has finally given one.

Wasn't Texas a tech hub dating back to TI?

I doubt anyone will seriously bet on any of Trump's changes since his mercurial temperament and tendency to chase the shiny makes it all so unreliable.

If anything, Apple won by playing exactly the Windows playbook with software: Embrace, extend, extinguish. I'll add a new one: Restrict. (App Store)

- a larger investment number in a previously announced Austin campus

- new factory in Houston "which will create thousands of jobs"

- "doubling its $5 billion US Advanced Manufacturing Fund to $10 billion"

- "It will also open an Apple Manufacturing Academy in Detroit in which Apple engineers and other experts will offer consultations to local businesses on “implementing AI and smart manufacturing techniques,” along with free classes for workers."

Why is PCC driving Apple to spend billions to build servers in the states? Because it is insane from a security standpoint (insanely awesome).

PCC is an order of magnitude more secure server platform than has ever been deployed for consumer use at planet scale. Secure and private enough to literally send your data and have it processed server side instead of on device without having to trust the host (Apple).[1] Until now the only way to do that was on device. If you sent your data for cloud processing, outside of something exotic like homomorphic encryption[2], you’d still have to trust that the host did a good job protecting your data, using it responsibly, and wasn’t compromised. Not the case with PCC.

To accomplish this Apple uses its own custom chips with Secure Enclaves that provide a trust foundation for the whole system, ultimately cryptographically guaranteeing that the binaries processing your data have been publicly audited by independent security auditors. This is the so called hardware root of trust.

It is essential then that the hardware deployed in data centers has not been physically tampered with. Without that the whole thing falls apart. So Apple has a whole section in their security white paper detailing an audited process for deploying data center hardware and ensuring supply chain integrity.[3]

You can imagine how that is the weak point in the system made more robust by managing it in the US. Tighter supply chain control.

[1] https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

[2] Fun fact, Apple also just deployed a homomorphic encryption powered search engine! It’s also insane!

[3] https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

Thankfully for Apple that's a very low number in a world where people demand tiktok remain legal when shown how their data is being used by foreign actors. People only care about privacy when it's local (don't want mother to find out, neighbours to talk, friend to think a certain way about you or classmate stalking) and that's why ai fakes are much more concern then a company knowing everything you do.

But this product is great for fortune 500 businesses.

From that perspective I really appreciate this effort by Apple.

The fact that Apple is comfortable shipping a whitelabel ChatGPT is proof that the whole Private Cloud Compute thing is just for show. They're perfectly happy partnering with the Worldcoin guy to sell you something popular if there's money in it for them. Apple knows people expect them to release some haughty whitepaper, so they cook up PCC and claim you can audit it if they think you're worthy of seeing the insides. Now all the privacy nuts can pipe down while Apple plans a longer-term strategy to make their hardware compete in the datacenter.

There is a world where Apple takes their own privacy commitment to the next level through radical transparency. But that's not what PCC is, it's another puppet for the Punch-and-Judy security theater that sells their iCloud subscriptions.

PCC is designed to handle extensive personal data, and the auditing is attested by cryptographic proofs provided to software clients, not just white papers read by humans. It is significantly different from what we’ve seen before in the industry, and highly worth the effort to understand it if you are at all involved in server engineering.

Isn't local processing on Apple devices rooted in the same secure enclave hardware/firmware, attacked and hardened for 10+ years?

As far as local processing goes, though, you're also still fundamentally trusting Apple that the OS binaries you get from them do what they say they do. Since they have all the signing keys, they could easily push an iOS update that extracts all the local data and pushes it to some server somewhere.

Now, I don't think that either of these scenarios is likely to happen if it's down to Apple by itself - they don't really gain anything from doing so. But they could be compelled by a government large and important enough that they can't just pull out. For example, if US demanded such a thing (like it already did in the past), and the executive made a concerted push to force it.

  you have to trust Apple that the server side is running all that stuff

> When a user’s device sends an inference request to Private Cloud Compute, the request is sent end-to-end encrypted to the specific PCC nodes needed for the request. The PCC nodes share a public key and an attestation — cryptographic proof of key ownership and measurements of the software running on the PCC node — with the user’s device, and the user’s device compares these measurements against a public, append-only ledger of PCC software releases.

> compelled by a government

Sadly, the bar is much lower than "compel". Devices are routinely compromised by zero-day vulnerabilities sold by exploit brokers to multiple parties on the open market, including governments. Especially any device with cellular, wifi or bluetooth radios. Hopefully the Apple C1 modem starts a new trend in radio baseband hardening, including PAC, ASLR and iBoot, https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-reveals-first-custo...

PCC does actually prevent Apple from switching things in between audits to a high degree. It’s not like a food safety inspection. The auditor signs the hardware in a multi party key ceremony and they employ other countermeasure like chassis tamper switches. PCC clients use a protocol that ensures whatever they are connecting to has a valid signature. This is detailed in Apple’s documentation.[1]

See, this is why I think privacy engineering is low key the most cutting edge aspect of server development. Previously held axioms are made obsolete by architectural advancements. I think we’re looking at a once in 15 year leap - the previous ones being microservices and web based architecture.

[1] https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

At the end of the day, it ultimately still boils down to trust though, yes? Trust that they are running the data centers the way they say they are, trust that their supply chain is what they say it is, and so on? At the same time, using some open source piece of software also entails a great amount of trust: I’m not going through the source code of Signal myself, and I’m also not checking that an open source locally served model isn’t sending traffic/telemetry etc back to some remote server via whatever software is running the model… rather, I’m placing my trust in the open source community that others have inspected and tested these things. I’m sure all sorts of shady PRs into important open source code bases are made on the reg after all. So that’s not to say that trusting Apple is necessarily more or less wise than trusting open source software from a security standpoint… my point is just that it seems like they are aspiring to a zero trust architecture, but at the end of the day, it does still require trust that they are operating in good faith vis-a-vis what they are representing in the white papers right? To me, it seems like a relatively safe assumption that they are for a variety of reasons, but nonetheless, it is an assumption right?

You’re right, security is a matter of degrees not absolutes, but open source software requires considerably less trust than closed source. Right?

PCC applies this principle by making the binaries it runs public and auditable by you or anyone in the security community. (In some cases the source code as well.) The craziness is in the architecture that provides cryptographic proof to clients that the server they’re connecting to is running an audited binary and running on secure hardware. It even does TLS termination at the shard level so you can have high confidence that if the binary isn’t connecting to anything your data will be unreadable by any other server in the org.

So it goes way beyond trusting what the whitepaper says. Data center hardware deployments are audited by a third party that signs the servers in a key ceremony. That ultimately undergirds the cryptographic attestation that servers provide to clients that everything has been audited. And it’s also the element that tighter supply chain control helps shore up.

If you’re new to security the architecture documentation I linked to is a very friendly read and a good intro to some of these threats, countermeasures and rationales.

> The craziness is in the architecture that provides cryptographic proof to clients that the server they’re connecting to is running an audited binary and running on secure hardware.

I definitely missed this concept when skimming the links before posting my comment - very very cool!

> open source software requires considerably less trust than closed source. Right?

Of course… but at the same time, I think the difference in the degree of trust I am placing in say, Signal’s end to end encryption and Apple’s (claims of) end-to-end encryption is not as large as it might cursorily seem. Would I be more surprised to read in the news that Apple had secretly embedded some back door than I would be reading in the news that malicious actor managed to push some hidden exploit through to Signal in an otherwise innocent PR? I’m genuinely not sure which would surprise me more, or which event would be more probable, so can I really make any claim as to which is more secure, given the current knowledge I have? Obviously I could think more deeply about this, but superficially, both are requiring pretty large amounts of trust from me - which I don’t think is misplaced in either… though I do personally trust something like signal more at the end of the day based on… what, intuition? A gut feeling?

I would go out on a limb and say Apple would love to also prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they too as an organization cannot get away with planting a secret back door — not because they have pure angelic hearts, but because this is good for their privacy-differentiated business model. And PCC certainly makes a huge leap in that direction. But it’s not the problem it’s primarily targeting nor an easy one to solve completely.

As another example, Apple has an implementation of OHTTP onion routing[1] called iCloud Private Relay. It’s really cool and easy to use. The point is to make it so nobody but you can tell what website your IP address is connecting to, not even Apple, the operator of the relay. But bottom line, Apple picks who they collaborate with for the gateways and there’s nothing stopping them from colluding out of band to de-anonymize you if that’s what they wanted to do.

Does this defeat the purpose of iCloud Private Relay? No. Its purpose is to better protect you from common privacy attacks, better than a traditional VPN would. It happens to also narrow the trust you need to place in Apple, namely that they would need to collude with another company to defeat the system as opposed to some rogue lone wolf SRE deciding to access your logs. But it wasn’t put in place to make people who fundamentally distrust Apple as a company start trusting them.

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9458/

Isn't that pretty much the story for most every thing though? It comes down to discernment, which is mostly subjective itself.

Same here. Personally, do I trust Apple? I don't have a leaning one way or another about that. What I trust is that Capitalism is gonna capitalize. And Apple doing what it says here, is its Brand. If down the road it comes out later it was all a lie. That Brand has no more standing. No more standing, no more sales. And Apple is in the Brand/product selling business. I trust they won't throw away their trillions because they would rather sell their Brand on white papers over an actual product that the papers describe.

Moscow rules and George Smiley’s tradecraft are probably the only real security… ha!

am i wrong or does this just change the threat from Chinese to US government tampering

and if third-party auditing can detect hardware tampering then why does it matter where the hardware is manufactured

That is however not most users' concern (in fact, I'd guess less than 0.001% of Apple users are concerned with supply chain attacks on Apple's servers); what we're concerned with is Apple itself misusing our data in some way (for example, to feed into their growing advertising business, or to redirect to authorities). PCC does NOT solve any of this and it's in fact an unsolvable solution as long as their server side code is closed source (or otherwise unavailable for self-hosting as binaries). For me, Apple Intelligence stays off on my devices (and when that is no longer an option, I'm jumping ship - I just wish there was something at least passable to jump to).

It is in fact a solvable problem. The binaries are indeed available for self hosting in a virtualized PCC node for research purposes.[1] Auditors can confirm that the binaries do not transmit data outside of the environment. There are several other aspects of the architecture that are designed to prevent use data from leaking outside of the node’s trust boundary, for example TLS terminates at the node level and nodes use encrypted local storage so user data is unreadable to any other node / part of the organization.

[1] https://security.apple.com/documentation/private-cloud-compu...

Doesn't PCC guarantee even more than that? From my reading, Apple can't exfiltrate any data to other servers (even ones that Apple owns) nor can they inject any processing other than what is outlined into that server. Otherwise, what's the point of such a stringent hardware integrity requirement?

But there is a major difference that is germane to the topic of Apple’s investment in US server manufacturing: The hardware root of trust. Hardware tampering is the weak point and afaik AWS doesn’t describe any process to certify their supply chain integrity. I think the most they’ve done is commission a review of their architecture document.[1] PCC actually has an auditor sign each server node in the datacenter.

Thank you for mentioning them though. It’s an important advancement in generally available confidential computing infrastructure.

[1] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/compute/aws-nitro-system-gets-i...

The tarriffs haven't happened overnight. They've been discussed for going on 2 full years now. Anyone who wasn't blinded by their own political preferences saw this coming.

The easy fix is to add more vector cores and RAM to the chips and shrink them to use less power, but it takes time and initially these go to power cord systems (first in the kludge, then maybe MacPro and some kind of AI-hub that sits in your living room and vehicle), then..well you wonder why the small form factor iPhone just was dc'ed?

The difference between the great leaders and the crap leaders is all in the details.

Even if the move forward with investment, they will be a bit of a 'late' mover, but will have had a chance to see what is working and what isn't working for everyone else.

1. JD Vance independent of Trump will have the same policies.

2. JD Vance will have enough popularity for a serious 2028 run. He might fall out favour with Trump as Trump tries to mount a bid for a third term, Trumpism might just generally lose popularity if policies lead to bad outcomes.

3. Dems don't figure their shit out. They should be able to take back some control in mid-terms, and then start to push their own policies, or at least credibly show that the most extreme policies from the exec branch don't have teeth anymore.

How do we know this isn't just crazy conspiracy theory? Because they already did attempt the same thing in 2020, and this time they had the chance to vet the VP candidate for this scenario.

    > as Trump tries to mount a bid for a third term

Maybe instead of saying the t-word tariff, US gov can charge Apple a special fee on each iPhone. They can call it something catchy, like say, a Core Technology Fee.

Sounds more like technical marketing and the company will treat any decisions around it as a marketing exercise.

Not entirely true. Some of the highest value components in an iPhone, including the CPU/SoC, baseband, and the majority of OLED displays, are sourced from countries that are not mainland China.

Apple could, with its immense cash hoard and cash flow, _make_ the US viable, but it chooses not to because it'd rather take the easy way out and have China or India or $COUNTRY fund it and return money to shareholders. They've returned money to shareholders rather than invest it in US operations, by design.

This is a classic feint to protect Tim Cook's entire raison detre. He built his career on super high efficiency operations by outsourcing to cheap labor countries. It relies on the low-to-no tariff access to US consumer money.

And I don't care that it's better for their stock price; that's Apple's problem not mine as a US citizen. And even as an Apple investor I would rather the money be spent on US on-shore operations.

> And I don't care that it's better for their stock price; that's Apple's problem not mine as a US citizen.

That is the shareholder’s problems. People like to think that their investments won’t go batsh*t insane overnight.

> And even as an Apple investor I would rather the money be spent on US on-shore operations.

Apple doesn’t even make all, or even most of its money in the states. Not all of its shareholders are American, if they went this route they could lose half of their revenue overnight (as other countries note the protectionism and tariff or simply forbid Apple products from being sold).

>Apple doesn’t even make all, or even most of its money in the states. Not all of its shareholders are American, if they went this route they could lose half of their revenue overnight (as other countries note the protectionism and tariff or simply forbid Apple products from being sold).

So? I don't care about their revenue, I care about the future of American industry. Having a bunch of cash hoarded by old people is irrelevant if it isn't reinvested in something I care about. And I don't care about your supercar or Nobu reservation, or if some fund returns an extra 2%. This is despite being a direct beneficiary.

Live by shareholder return, die by shareholder return; the US is not and shouldn't ever be geared to shareholder return over everything else. Apple and other companies have freeloaded off the US for far too long.

Juche doesn't work in North Korea, it isn't going to work in the USA.

Most smartphone supply-chain for Samsung and Apple exist outside China -- primarily in Japan (camera, sensors), South Korea (DRAM/NAND, OLED), and the US (various ICs fabbed at TSMC in Taiwan). There are quite a few reliable estimates/teardowns showing that these three countries account for close to about 90% of iPhone BOM (bill of materials). That's one reason why Samsung's smartphone unit was able to pull out of China without much disruption back in 2019 -- ie, low dependence on China.

I feel that Apple has pushed this misleading narrative a bit too long to defend their massive China outsourcing.

Measurable results affect rational aspects of our minds, PR attempts to attacks directly emotions bypassing the former, ie to induce impulsive shopping.

Also, what actual security? Apple is as vulnerable as cheap chinese phones against state actors using 0days. Apple devices are still being stolen for spare parts, Apple doesnt secure each component AFAIK and thieves know this (very recent case with friend of a friend, they even knew how to bypass that built in airtag tracking). I haven't seen anything but very well crafted PR statements on this topic. All money-accessing apps on absolutely any phone are a security risk.

But folks love convenience above all.

If the Trump administration has any competence, they will rub those old promises in Apple's face until Cook actually does something meaningful.

Of course the standard economic argument is that China using its GDP to make goods cheaper for our own citizens to purchase is better for us - they are subsidizing our economy. However it ignores the strategic disadvantage by our country losing its manufacturing capabilities.

The graphs may show economic advantage. It’s hard to quantify the long term strategic and militaristic disadvantage to not being able to make anything yourself if a world war occurs.

This is overlooking the forest for one tree. The thing is, mean chinese manufacturing wages are $25k/year (purchasing parity adjusted! $15k unadjusted) for a 49h week.

That is the reason that so much manufacturing/industry has shifted there, not some nebulous "Chinese government subsidies" (not saying those are not a thing, just that they don't really matter all that much).

> It’s hard to quantify the long term strategic and militaristic disadvantage to not being able to make anything yourself if a world war occurs.

Certainly. But forcing low-skill industry to stay at a relevant size in a high-wage country is expensive business (compare agriculture, which is subsidized basically for exactly this reason) and not straightforward (see Jones act).

Presenting tariffs as a viable alternative to taxation is just beyond ridicule, but that has not stopped people so far either...

The bigger picture is that China invests in the development of an industrial chain. This has many aspects: infrastructure, education, training, housing, and of course tax incentives. The USA decided to stop investing in practically all of these. Even scientific research, the last area in which the US used to lead, is now in jeopardy from both sides: competition from China and internal cuts.

But I strongly disagree with your conclusion.

Lets assume that the US did all of those perfectly:

- Brilliantly educated workers with the perfect ratio of industry specific knowledge/experience

- Cheap housing near industry hubs built by the state

- The best and cheapest to use ports, roads and railway networks on the planet

- No tax on manufacturing workers income

Some of those are ludicrous/unrealistic for the US to provide.

But even if you managed to do all this-- that still does not make US manufacturing industry competitive. Because those US workers will still want a locally competitive wage instead of <10$/hour.

You are making some kind of logical jump here that I can not follow. I just listed basically the absolute best that the US could have ever done-- but even in that absolute dream scenario (tax free income for manufactoring workers? I mean in what world do you see something like that ever actually happening?), the US is still not competitive in a direct comparison, because US workers have just no reason to work manufacturing for 10€/hour (when they make ~30/hour right now).

You can stack all the incentives you want-- the gap in wages/standards is so large that apart from straight up paying the difference (in either tariffs or subsidies, and that is a lot of money), you are not going to make US manufacturing competitive in a head-on comparison.

Most of Africa is just starting to slowly get there, Bangladesh is already very relevant for textile production.

I would expect the same basic trend to repeat that we saw with electronics manufacturing in 90s Japan: First cheap products move (very wage sensitive), then the local sector expands, wages rise with the whole local industry moving up the value chain, then at some point local wages become high enough for the whole process to repeat with the next low-wage country...

I think trying to block this trend off with tariffs is a futile waste of taxpayer money which american consumers are gonna pay for.

Spending tax money to keep some degree of self-sufficiency in critical industries (like with agriculture) can be a solid idea if done sparingly and cleverly, but that is not how the current US admin has approached this...

If things keep going the way they are going, that could describe the US just as well in a few short years.

"The company responded by intensively lobbying the U.S. government to intervene and mounting a misinformation campaign to portray the Guatemalan government as communist.[18] In 1954, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency armed, funded, and trained a military force that deposed the democratically elected government of Guatemala and installed a pro-business military dictatorship.[19]"

This is not a one-time aberration.

just think of china as another trader with more capital than you and pull yowrself up by your bootstraps.

I searched 'economics 101 strategic industries' and found this[1] within 30s which includes an overview of 'national self-sufficiency'. It presents the standard argument, including the parts you claim the standard argument ignores.

I personally favor decentralized planning over markets, but I find it unnecessary to slander economics.

--

1: https://www.adamsmith.org/economics-101

0.2% of all US border Fentanyl seizures were on the Canadian border. That's almost literally nothing.

Also it's not only about drugs, but also humans smuggling (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fentanyl-dr-smuggler-1.737348...), and overall border security.

- According to CIS, the number of Canadian crime groups producing synthetic drugs doubled between 2023 and 2024 - There's a lack of Canadian agents who are tasked at preventing this and current legislations make it very inefficient between federal and provincial law agents - There's an upward trend in Fentanyl seizures in Canada the last 2 years - Fentanyl is now being produced domestically in Canada

All of that is within the control of Canada with better policies.

Last year there were 45 lbs of fentanyl intercepted crossing into the US from Canada. Thats a backpack. There’s 500x as much coming from Mexico.

It’s unrealistic to expect that zero fentanyl will come into the US from Canada, and until that happens we will tariff all trade with them.

I mentioned in the previous post that Canada is willing to spend extra resources to avoid a trade war.

That means nothing to trump and this administration, you are trying to use logic to justify decisions made out of personal ego.

Edit: also wanted to add that more guns, drugs and people illegal flow into Canada from the US than visa versa.

Maybe the US should consider securing their own borders

Yes, and no.

Sure, Trump is using all kind of tricks to put pressure against his trade partners to secure some wins that will solidify him as a change agent to boost America, which will appeal to his electoral base. At the same time, it may actually bring good results to the US economy, bringing major investments in the country and negotiating better trade deals.

You may not agree with the means to get there, but you can't deny there's an argument to be made about his "America first" policies and why it could benefit the average people in the long run.

Which means those who care about this are back to not only contacting legislators but also persuading a lot fellow voters that separation of powers is crucial and worth prioritizing over familiar well-handled and loved heuristics.

Congress has become increasingly unproductive and unresponsive. There are many popular policies that Congress essentially ignores, and many problems that go unsolved. So trust in government dwindles and people crave strongman solutions.

I’m not sure there is a solution. There are so many interlocking problems gumming up the process that any “we just need to fix X” solutions (where X is gerrymandering, money in elections, lobbying, the two party system, first past the post, corruption, income inequality, the electoral college, the slow death of journalism, consolidation of industries, etc) are nearly impossible and also probably insufficient because they all feed back into one another: they are both causes and effects.

So when people are mad about a downstream effect like the price of eggs and digging any deeper touches one of the topics above (“to fix egg price gouging you need to reinvent the political system” sounds a lot like “to make an omelette first you need to create the universe”), it’s really easy to throw your hands up.

1. The agents of political change are themselves subject to politics. (Unlike maintainers of a codebase, who are able to make top-down decisions about the code.) If you make a bad decision, it may be the last one you’re allowed to make.

2. There are no unit tests for politics. There is only history, which is an imperfect predictor.

3. Code is deterministic. Policy is not.

1. Politics does enter into programming teams. There's several articles of this genre. Where the most highly regarded programmer made bad decisions over a long period of time & exhibited hubris in doing so. This programmer was fired, but if he was a founder otherwise held some leverage, then he may not be fire-able. However, other staff can leave. It's more difficult to leave the impact of politics.

https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/we-fired-our-top-talent-be...

Entire industries can make bad decisions due to incentives. Such as I must learn technology X because companies hire for technology X. Companies choose technology X because developers know technology X. Technology X could have fundamentally flaws. Compounding complexity in the ecosystem as additional tech is made to fix the flaws...which will also have flaws.

These cycles of compounding bad strategic decisions yet good tactical decisions can last decades.

2. In some ways there are unit tests for politics. Geopolitical signals can be sent. So if X happens, there's a tacit agreement that Y will be the response. Unit tests are great for small units. However, complex systems can be difficult to comprehensively test. This is why there is fuzzing...which is effectively a monte carlo simulation. Monte Carlo simulations are widely used in political analysis.

3. There's non-deterministic inputs. And the system can be more complex than what's possible to model. Leading effectively to non-determinism in making decisions about how to modify the system.

The Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act by Congress gave FDR sweeping authority over tariffs without direct congressional approval.

Then later the Trade Expansion Act under Kennedy.

Historically, these have served to decrease tarrifs.

And both sides of the aisle benefit from this. Whether it's legalized insider trading or jumping to corporate jobs when out of office, it's a corrupting influence. All members of Congress, SCOTUS and POTUS should have to place their assets into blind trusts. That won't stop this corrosive influence, but it is the bare minimum.

The feds can and do go after people for using family members and friends to execute trades. So if Nancy Pelosi told her husband some material non-public info, and Paul Pelosi traded on it, that would still be insider trading.

There was a guy at Microsoft who was caught once using a friend to place trades. He said he talked himself past his ethical concerns by reasoning that members of Congress do it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sec-alleges-insider-trading-...

Edit: to be clear, the absence of a prosecution does not mean that the Pelosis did not insider trade. Nor that they did. We can't tell from this distance, only speculate.

Trump is using extremely misguided legislation from the 1960s/70s where Congress allowed the President to enact tariffs for national security and emergencies. There is a very strong argument (in the sense it resonates with the conservative SCOTUS majority) that Congress cannot delegate its fundamental powers to the executive by legislation alone.

I think people are just too cowardly to bring a case in front of the courts to challenge the constitutionality of it all. Non-delegation doctrine is what the Federal Society want to use to kneecap all federal regulation. Trump operates on a spoils system so it's not in the interest of conservatives or businesses to challenge him, for fear of retribution.

I haven't seen a citation from either side. Can you substantiate your position?

TL;DR read Article I section 8, read up about the Trade Expansion act of 1962 and Trade act of 1974, and "non-delegation doctrine", and you can trivially find legal debate about the constitutionality of IEEPA. Rather than listen to random nerds on HN you should seek out this information yourself.

US consumers, that’s all of you, are being hammered with taxes on imported goods most of which can’t realistically be produced in the US anyway, to solve a problem you don’t have.

A commitment like this takes years to plan. It can’t possibly be a response to tariffs announced weeks ago. This is all optics.

And I don't trust unemployment in this gig economy. I'm technically not unemployed, but I haven't had a full time job in nearly 2 years.

But nothing Trump is doing is going to fix your situation.

In fact he (or rather Elon/doge) is very actively making things worse for you with the massive government layoffs, flooding the market with even more people to compete with you for jobs making finding work more difficult and also eventually dropping all of our wages.

I'm aware. I'm sure he's responsible for at least 3 job freezes I ran into mid-interview this year. He's literally costing me job opportunities because no one can budget around this chaotic government.

That's because Americans got /richer/ and retired. You want to look at the prime-age rate, which the boomers have moved out of.

A lot of fake employment and low productivity jobs are in the government/NGO sector, paper pushers, DEI jobs, law/compliance type jobs - that should have been manufacturing jobs instead.

USA has no shipyards and infrastructure is crumbling precisely because of misallocation of resources and labor

That's because of the Jones Act and other poorly designed protectionism.

Heck, the _whole_ Federal government workforce is less than 2% of the total workforce.

> USA has no shipyards and infrastructure is crumbling precisely because of misallocation of resources and labor

Yes, and you have tariffs to thank for this. The Jones Act requires US-built ships for any ship traffic within the US waters.

So the shipbuilders were insulated from competition and just degraded into Defense contract moochers.

Jones Act is the reason US has at least some form of domestic shipbuilding

For example, the Washington state needs new ferries, and their cost is literally almost 10x than the cost for the similar ferries produced in Turkey for the nearby Vancouver, BC. With this kind of cost gap, there is simply nobody who would buy the US ships unless they _have_ to.

Without the Jones Act, the shipbuilders would have adapted long ago to produce high-margin high-tech components for the ships for the international market. And likely in larger quantities than they do currently.

So it's up to the gig workers if they think they're employed or not. Presumably this depends on how often they do it.

I’m on mobile but Googling for “Apple tariff waiver” and “Apple tariff exemption” will point you to several news items.

There’s been an isolationist wing in tech as long as I’ve been in it (early 2000s). I remember chatting with someone at Cisco/Juniper in the late aughts about Huawei ripping off their router designs down to the silk screening. Of course today Huawei makes their own state of the art routers with their own silicon, and some lower-end Cisco/Juniper gear is white boxed foreign equipment. And of course tech folks were complaining about immigration and outsourcing back in the early 2000s when Republicans were enthusiastically supporting both.

It destroyed the futures of a larger number of Americans.

Then again, why do we make the distinction "American"? If you have people who became unfathomably wealthy by shipping off strategic industries to the lowest bidder regardless of geopolitical implications, does nationality matter anymore?

Way easier and more globally optimal than just saying we're going to do absolutely everything (even the shitty jobs) here in the US.

Yes.

The on-average crossover between negative and positive net total federal income (individuals will differ because of individual circumstance beyond just income level) tax when taking into account refundable credits (most notably, but not exclusively, EITC) is a bit below the median personal income but not that far below it, so certainly lots of individual "normal" (by most reasonable definitions) Americans do not pay net federal income tax .

But even if they don't pay net federal income taxes, they probably still pay a net positive amount in a variety of state taxes, federal payroll taxes, and federal consumption taxes (e.g., gas tax.)

You can choose to withhold more or less, but the default taxation on w-2's do generally give a bit of a refund. Better to take out too much when you don't need it than slam down a gigantic bill when at once a year later.

To be clear, I do think capital gains taxes are criminally low in the US relative to income tax, so I'm not arguing in _favor_ of lower taxes. I'm just saying why raising taxes isn't a panacea.

You’re not wrong, of course, about how every tax percentage point matters. But Americans arguing that their taxes are too high is never not hilarious.

So make the US to be like a far less successful country? Kill your economy by increasing taxes? The US economy is singularly successful because it has incentives to build businesses - see YC.

Have you tried living in a country that doesn't encourage businesses? They are often great tourist destinations. I'm in New Zealand and too many ambitious young people leave here: we have an emigration problem because our economy sucks. The government fixes the economy with 30% immigrants (disclaimer: I love immigrants). I have many friends that are never coming back here except for holidays. I hate the New Zealand government incentives for businesses (taxation and regulation) and I can see no way to fix them. Even our "business" political party ACT is completely fucked (latest story - they will be selling everything profitable to overseas "investors" - destroying the economy).

Taxation incentives matter to businesses. Be careful what you ask for because the majority have little understanding and vote for the wrong incentives.

Even business owners don't seem to understand incentive systems that well. Perhaps game designers do?

Then why would ensuring the same effective tax rate on the 99th percentile kill their incentive?

However I believe that incentives need to be marginal. If you already have a lot perhaps you need a big carrot as your incentive? I don't know any billionaires that I can ask how they feel about taxation incentives: I reckon you are making assumptions about what you think they should feel.

What makes Tim Cook make the US more money?

Taxation cliffs are shit. In New Zealand our Green party decided that 1 million was enough. Why would you bother growing a business after you reached 1 million? Retirement? A business is defined as being about making money (albeit some people do run "businesses" for other outcomes - why is Warren Buffett still working?).

High marginal taxation is also shit IMHO.

The hard part is to design the incentives so that productive people build your economy for the benefit of everybody.

If a government discourages business then the economy is crap and everybody suffers. See other economies.

Few people understand the incentives of others, and few people understand how wealth is created for all: the hoi polloi dismiss the wealthy as vampiric money grubbers. Anyone who uses the word capitalist in a derogatory way has been brainwashed. Most everything that makes our economies work is invisible non-monetary rewards. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43162596

I can speak for my own financial incentives. My perception is that I have an effective tax rate of well over 50% in New Zealand (any retirement savings are not safe because our demographics and governments will screw our economy).

I do not feel the incentive to work in a business - My attitude means I now produce marginally less than I could for the New Zealand economy (I still pay taxes so they are advantaged but they could get a lot lot more from me). I now mostly selfishly concentrate on those closest to me. Why should I work if it isn't marginally beneficial enough for me? I'm no more selfish than my retired friends that I know (a wide variety of people from many walks of life).

(Reëdited to expand and clarify).

We can't decide how much is fair. Compare yourself to a dead king - what is fair? We can design systemic incentives so that we each make the world better for everyone. Not that that it is easy... Trite thoughtless dismissals of the most productive members of society are not helpful.

Edit 2: I guess this discussion is as close to work as it gets for me. Too much adulting. Should I get into politics? Are morals an impediment to helping others? There are too few politicians I admire, and too many I wouldn't want to shake hands with or be associated with. Every idiot has political opinions - how much of an idiot am I? Every politician is smart enough to win an election - they are not stupid yet they make too many horrific mistakes. What about the cryptically smart ones? I see how systems affect people that join a system. What would I become if I join our political system? Understanding our different systems is hard because they grow so weirdly with vestigial complexities due to history, complex interactions, and reflexivity.

They are parasites at this point. If they think they can find lower taxes than 22% they are happy to leave. As if they aren't already avoiding taxes.

  So What Does Drive Political Disagreement?

  If you’ve read The Psychopolitics Of Trauma, you already know my answer to this: it’s all psychological. People support political positions which make them feel good. On a primary level, this means:

 \* Successful people want to hear that they deserve their success.

 \* Unsuccessful people want to hear that successful people don’t deserve their success, lied / cheated / nepotismed their way to the top, and are no better than they are.

 \* People want to knock down anyone who makes a status claim to be better than them.

* People want to feel like their preferred lifestyle and policies have no negative implications at all and they don’t have to feel guilty about them.

* People want to feel like they’re part of a group of special people poised to change the world, and everyone else is hidebound bigots who resist temporarily but will eventually be forced to recognize their genius. People want to virtue-signal: demonstrate that they have the good qualities that their ingroup considers most important.

* But people also want to vice-signal: demonstrate their willingness to breezily dismiss the supposedly good qualities that the outgroup considers important.

In a purely technical sense, yes. Because you don't necessarily need an American salary to pay taxes that cover these facilities.

It was very much a concerted effort for most other non-govt Healthcare to be tied to often American jobs. Which of course causes a cacophony of problems when less employers are even offering full time work.

>Why do you look at money as though that is all that matters?

It does not, but business these days sucked up enough money that it's starting to affect basic survival, let alone any pursuit of happiness. There's no point finding upsides when the common person is is so low on the totem pole.

Making hypotheticals of "well look on the bright side, you're not dead" doesn't help either. When America starts using that wealth to make sure no one in a first person country isn't dying on the street, we can discuss the subtleties of capitalism.

>Every poor person I've met avoids taxes.

Well I can't speak for New Zealand. You can't tax a poor person with no income. That's how bad the situation is here.

That is a weirdly employee centric view. I'm talking about the US economy. American salaries depend on American businesses. America has some of the best healthcare available in the world. If US businesses are fucked due to the beliefs of citizens (or whatever else), then the US socialised healthcare is fucked too. There's plenty of poorly run countries to compare against (including Cuba where I discovered their lies about their healthcare first-hand as a tourist). NZ socialised healthcare is okay but our economy is not improving and regardless of our desires for more, the social benefits have no choice but to match our economic output.

> it's starting to affect basic survival, let alone any pursuit of happiness

Only if you're one-eyed. US citizens are the rich. In a fair world we would tax all Americans at 90% and redistribute that to the poor in the rest of the world. Maybe same for NZ too (Wikipedia shows that NZ's disposable median income is ⅔ that of the US however it also strangly says that NZ's median wealth is nearly double that of the US -- I'm guessing because houses are more unaffordable in NZ). Income is usually a better measure within an economy of useful output (economies can't really save for next year). The US federal poverty line is about $16000 for one person - a hell of a lot of money for people in many countries.

> Making hypotheticals of "well look on the bright side, you're not dead" doesn't help either.

I guess you're referring to my comment "Compare yourself to a dead king - what is fair?".

My obfuscated point is that few people (maybe narcissists) would give up their modern life to live in past poverty. Antibiotics, freedom, technology, access to the intellectual output of the world. We are mostly a lot better off than the past. Most people don't value that instead they are money-centric (as many of your comments are). Most people seem to compare themselves to people that are wealthier than themselves and then complain about how they are not getting their fair share. Few people compare themselves against the global poor and then talk about how much they should share their wealth downwards. They talk about how others should share their wealth - they rarely seem to consider how they should share their own wealth. Especially ironic given that it appears that the majority of commenters on HN are the wealthy of the world (and often part of the tech overlords - e.g. YC).

The US is often a parasite upon other countries. If you were to say that the US pays it back to poor countries with technology (mostly from rich companies), then you would be implicitly arguing that wealthy US companies deserve to be wealthy. I recall that weapons are the biggest US export (nice!)

I guess I'm saying is really take care not to kill your geese laying golden eggs (even if you think the geese seem to be keeping too much golden egg to themselves): the socialised good that you have depends on those geese (US businesses). The bad is bad but don't destroy the good.

An economy is a delicate balance - as shown by many failed economies.

> When America starts using that wealth to make sure no one in a first person country isn't dying on the street

I've think I've answered that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43148513

Cheers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

Nor can they move to these offshore places (where the cost of living is lower) because immigration laws exist in part to control worker mobility.

China's going to put the money into making GPUs, and they're going to get it right, probably sooner than later. Then they'll drive the American manufacturers out of business, like they've done in many areas before. Their government isn't beholden to the profit-focused capitalist attitude that is one of the West's biggest vulnerabilities.

Also, it's pretty foolish to 1) forget power and security doesn't come from rarefied high value-add stuff, 2) that there are a lot of people that can't be employed doing stuff like making GPUs.

To be fair, the Federal Budget back then was 2%-ish of GDP. And their political consensus gave the Federal Gov't very few things that it had the power to tax.

Important to note that outlays do not equal federal taxes, because spending exceeds revenue by a substantial margin.

Ironic that as a Canadian, the US is moving from the nation that would be guided by Justice into the belligerent nation in this situation.

It also serves as a lesson to us that we should have learned from you and George Washington, and stood on our own first and ensured our own security before cooperating with others. We have a long way to go to get back there now, unfortunately under the position of potentially our closest ally and economic partner being belligerent, untrustworthy and unreliable.

I'm a Canadian. Operating SOLELY on the actions and statements of your executive branch, not the media's reporting but the wording of the government, their executive orders, their direct public statements. your government is increasingly belligerent, untrustworthy and unreliable.

Belligerant -> Constantly making subtle threads of annexation. Calling the Prime Minister of Canada the "Governor" of Canada. Constantly lying about trade deficits that are surpluses and drug and migrant problems that are actually a bigger problem moving north across the border than south.

Untrustworthy -> After renegotiating NAFTA to USMCA and hailing that as a great agreement, now its a shit agreement and he's putting tarrifs on to get more from Canada under the threat (and likely actuality) of causing economic harm to both our countries.

Unreliable -> You were our biggest and staunchest ally. Electing an administration that is actively hostile to our government and sovereignty means you are no longer reliable as an ally.

> they want to maintain the status quo for their own enrichment at the expense of any specific nation, because in reality plain old paying attention shows nearly the exact opposite is true in every sense.

The current actions of the administration are destroying hundreds of thousands of lives in order to enrich a few thousand at the top. They are alienating ally's, destabilizing peace and almost guaranteeing more conflict and war in the near future.

Chomsky warned of the damage a demagogue supported by a disenfranchised, hurting and angry populace can have on a country. This is happening now, and half the country is burying their head in the sand claiming its propaganda.

>they just want to “manufacture consent” for the forward march of the global hegemony, that oligarchy… nobody in their right mind, with eyes unclouded by hate, would come to these conclusions naturally.

The oligarchy has taken over. The few that benefit from the "global hegemony" you refer to, which is largely the 'interests of the rich' are now completely in control of the US.

The US administration absolutely is not looking out for the interests of the average Americans. Most of what they are doing directly hurts most or all Americans in one way or another, and the few things they do that help Americans benefit the rich the most.

Now is the time much of the US populace has always claimed it would stand up against tyranny, an oppressive "lord" class and kings. They are watching it and cheering it on instead.

And Dell became a case study of outsourcing everything (and sending your stock and profits soaring the whole time), until you have nothing.

* What type of jobs?

* Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills?

* Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips?

* Is this actually profitable, or is this just a political move?

* Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? - "The company is opening up what it calls a manufacturing academy in Detroit, where it will help smaller companies with manufacturing. It already operates an academy for app developers in the city. It’s also doubling its manufacturing fund in the US to $10 billion." - Sounds like they are upskilling, and will count the employees of companies joining the academy as "jobs created"

* Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? - "[M-Series] chips themselves, however, continue to be produced in Taiwan.

* Is this actually profitable, or is this just a political move? - Define profitable. It is cheaper than paying tariffs.

Those 20,000 people won't be staffing the production lines. So how many manufacturing jobs, especially low skill, entry level with decent pay, will this create? The whole thing is framed in a way that makes it sound like Apple is creating thousands of manufacturing jobs.

This is not really a practical option. A big part of the M-series success is TSMC's lead in cutting edge process nodes. And Taiwan does not allow export of technology for the latest nodes. It is available only there.

For 30 years, IT managers at blue chip US corporations have exploited the H1-B visa program by saying, "No," and then hiring a never-ending stream of barely-capable Java coders from programmer mills in India, take 5 times longer to make an app than it should have taken, get promoted, and leave everyone holding the bag with shitty web app that we all hate because it's too slow, too bloated, and doesn't work like it needs to. And the companies who can't get enough of that bullshit in-house just hire it out to sub-sub-contractors that do the same thing. Can we not invest in our native population and education systems this time around? I'm so tired of the fact that 90% of the IT staff in my Fortune 250 is Indian, and I know people who would be better at their jobs living in my home town. It hurts our community and our country, in the long run, and by the VERY same logic as re-homing our chip production.

People in the UK who are against immigration are often talking about Poles who moved to the UK after the EU and not Indian families who have lived in those neighborhoods for generations.

And they DO have families of their own here (and bring over their in-laws), and a lot of them don't integrate well, for a variety of reasons. At least a third of my neighborhood is Indian. They glare at me on the sidewalk when I wave. And most of them remain inured in their caste system, and are difficult and unpleasant to work with.

Again, all the same arguments about developing our own chips domestically -- which I doubt many people have a problem with -- apply to developing our own, better education pipeline to fully develop domestic software engineers.

I actually think Apple is a potential dark horse when it comes to AI hardware. What we have now is essentially a three-layered monopoly: ASML, TSMC, NVidia. This has been incredibly lucrative for NVidia. But, as we know, Apple doesn't like to rely on third-party hardware. They've invested heavily in ARM going back to buying PA Semi [1]. Apple replaced Intel chips (which originally replaced Power chips) with the M series in recent years. Apple is in the process of replacing Qualcomm modems in iPhones, which is not only a technical feat but a legal one given Qualcomm's patent dominance over 4G/5G.

Apple has the resolve for long-term initiatives that few other companies have. Apple Pay continues to chip away and get slowly better in a way that, if it were a Google product, would've been cancelled, rebranded, relaunched probably 3-4 times by now (Google Checkout, Google Wallet, Google Pay, Android Pay, etc).

Apple clearly sees AI as a strategic issue. They have loads of cash on hand to finance basically anything they want. And they won't want to be beholden to NVidia.

I expect Apple to have a significant impact here but it won't be tomorrow or even this year. It'll be over the next 5-10 years.

[1]: https://www.wired.com/2008/04/four-reasons-ap/

Then there's also the software issues. Nvidia has invested in GPU-based compute nonstop for the past 10+ years. Apple invested in Nvidia, then invested in OpenCL after abandoning Nvidia, then abandoned OpenCL for Metal compute which would eventually become the proprietary Accelerate framework. Nvidia's eggs are all organized in one, valuable basket. Apple's investments are spread out all over the place, with much of the time and money going into projects that don't even exist anymore.

Apple has the TSMC advantage, but that's just about it. Their GPU designs aren't comparably efficient or compute-oriented to what Nvidia ships today. Additionally, Nvidia will continue investing in places that Apple principally refuses to support. Unless a serious tide change occurs at Apple, they aren't going to get a fair competition with Nvidia.

Apple's obsessive focus with raster efficiency really shot their GPU designs in the foot. It will be interesting to see if they adopt Nvidia-style designs or spend more time trying to force NPU hardware to work.

That said, an M4 Ultra (extrapolating from Max and Pro) would likely compete with my 3090, and with 192GB of memory (for 10x the amount it should cost) will out perform my 3x3090 AI server. And honestly, cost less than my 3 3090s + rest of the computer + electricity.

It won't outperform a bunch of A/H 100s (or even a single one, or any other cards in the enterprise realm) though, but it will cost an order of magnitude less than a single card.

The US is a great place to have your headquarters and a terrible place to have your not-so-cheap labor.

Their actions will drive prices higher and, indirectly, wage higher. Businesses without a war chest will not be able to keep going and fold, the labor market will collapse.

The rest of the world will trade amongst each other and I suspect to save themselves, some big tech companies will relocate their headquarters.

(even in the famous contract manufacturers used by Apple and Dell, etc.)

The point is that what you counted as not cheap labor probably is largely capex.

The US market demand is already depressed. Prices go up, demand will fall further.

Try to impose those prices elsewhere in the world and people will move off of apple products. Apple profits will fall, it will lead to a negative feedback loop.

“We grew from 10 customers to 100 customers in a year. At this rate we will have 20% of the world’s population in a decade!!!”

The first cohort of customers of any company is always the easiest to obtain with the lowest acquisition cost. You solve the easiest problems first.

This is Cohort Analysis 101. Not to mention Waymo still hasn’t shown to be able to operate in less than ideal weather conditions or proven that the unit economics will make sense or be economical especially taking into account maintenance, or utilization ratios.

When Waymo can demonstrate reliably going from Chicago to Ann Harbor in the middle of a snow storm thats when we can start talking about how its good enough.

    we will have 20% of the world’s population in a decade

None of these products were as good when they started as when they had a billion users.

Apple was the next Apple with the iMac. Then with the iPod. Then with the iPhone.

Google was the next Google with Android. With Chrome. With Gmail. With Google Maps. With YouTube.

Google becoming the next Google with Waymo would not be a black swan event.

But you won't believe any of that, because you want all this to happen. You're a doomer; doomers and preppers secretly want the doom they predict to happen, even if they won't admit it to themselves.

If trump’s terrible plans are rolled back there’s no harm.

If they aren’t rolled back they will undergo the costly move to relocate.

The world is a bigger market than USA and just about every other country has cheaper labor and no tariffs.

It’s just logic, I have no emotion tied to this.

> The world is a bigger market than USA and just about every other country has cheaper labor and no tariffs.

Have you done zero research into this? The EU imposes a tariff on Chinese EVs. India imposes insane tariffs on all imported electronics. China tariffs Australian wine. Russia tariffs agricultural products from the EU. Brazil tariffs all imported automobiles. The list goes on. Tariffs are everywhere, everyone uses them for something.

And then you have the rare earth minerals that aren’t available here.

Who can compete with Tesla and Waymo without having to buy hardware and software from the US?

Who can compete with OpenAI, Google, Grok, Perplexity without US hardware and software?

1: Take over Taiwan to get TSML under their control

2: Find a way to make a deal with ASML for the needed lithography machines

3: Somehow aquire the knowhow that Nvidia has

Taiwan would require a conflict with the US. ASML is a dutch company but seems to be somehow under US control. I have not yet figured out the exact setup there. And Nvidia is a US company.

It is very clear that both US and China are racing to onshore and establish sovereign control of chip production.

Sucks to be Taiwanese right now. The "silicon shield" is evaporating.

This idea that EUVL is—and always will be—outside of the reach of China is, frankly, silly. It's a silly strategy to maintain dominance. They will straight up steal the technology if needed.

We should stop pretending like we can roadblock the technological development of the largest country. It's just going to make the fall that much harder. Once they do attain the ability to manufactuer EUVL domestically, capital is going to flood out of US tech stocks like no tomorrow.

You haven't seen anything that hints at it, because most news about what happens in China doesn't leave China. The propoganda machine is hard at work reminding you that China is terrible and eveyrone in China is poor. You'll learn about China catching up only after it's already happened.

Consider the cost of GPUs, losing what could be double digit percents on overhead might not make this very competitive. The macOS microkernel can still beat NT in some situations (like not having filters slowing filesystem down to a crawl), but it lags significantly behind the investment in Linux performance over the years by every other major company.

The idea being there's no VMware, kernel or piece of hardware that can have backdoors built into unless someone files off the top of the chip and somehow probes the silicon

> Apple said that it, together with Foxconn Technology Group, will later this year begin producing the servers that power the cloud component of Apple Intelligence — a system called Private Cloud Compute — in Houston. That marks a relocation, at least for some production, from overseas. Next year, it says a 250,000-square-foot facility for such manufacturing will open in the city.

> The Private Cloud Compute servers use advanced M-series chips already found in the company’s Mac computers. Those chips themselves, however, continue to be produced in Taiwan.

Doing a Mac Mini sized version for SOHO would be great, too.

One can dream, I guess...

You can't easily sell "Good / Better / Best" version of a single model, and tell "These are the options, take it or leave it". Servers are customized to the screws they come with and are expanded throughout over the years. So, the logistics are somewhat different for these kinds of devices.

Plus, macOS is not a CLI first operating system for server operations, and macOS Server is not updated for some years. Allowing Linux would be a different offering, and allowing macOS to work with all kinds of hardware from ordinary Ethernet to 100G+ Ethernet and 400gbps Infiniband (plus all the other interconnects) will be a fun exercise in testing flexibility of both macOS and Apple development teams.

So it's quite complicated. All servers are built to order SKUs. Dell keeps configurations "per server" in their databases, for example. If you have a Dell server, enter its service tag to support site, and you'll get the configuration of the device as it left the factory.

I mean places like Github and AWS are painfully racking up Mac Minis for their deployments and this theoretical server model would simplify everything. It also becomes an option for on premises AI inference using MLX, especially if they manage to get ANE support working in conjunction with the GPU for faster prefill.

The support and software stack for the server model would be the exact same as the consumer variant and they certainly wouldn't have special Linux offerings, Infiniband, and all that. If there's networking beyond their existing 10G it's going to be built into the board and they aren't going to support random 3rd party cards. The unit also doesn't need to be upgradable either.

Is this just lip service? What happened to those previous investments?

Assume the human resources at $100,000 per head, and you get $2B/yr. Four years comes to just $8B for human resources. Assume land costs $10B. Assume construction costs $100B.

100+10+8 is $118B

Where is the money actually going?

Operational costs are going to be staggering. These are data centers that use as much power as entire cities.

There's a lot of noise I can see behind the scenes on investor confidence. Noise as in "everything is fucked" sort of level of noise. Thus I expect this is being said to try and stop the AAPL stock collapsing in the upcoming recession that the analysts are predicting more than a tangible expansion and recruitment goal.

I also take issue with their being 20,000 people on the market who are still able to contribute something useful. They will be culled quickly and quietly down the line in the annual corporate lay offs.

It is not the time to make grand gestures unless you're trying to gain political favour, at which point any respect I have at least is gone.

Market opening today should be interesting...

I guess they could sell servers to customers who want to run the latest Apple Intelligence models on-prem, even though that probably wouldn't make much of a difference, since you probably still have to trust Apple.

> Apple said that it, together with Foxconn Technology Group, will later this year begin producing the servers that power the cloud component of Apple Intelligence — a system called Private Cloud Compute — in Houston. That marks a relocation, at least for some production, from overseas. Next year, it says a 250,000-square-foot facility for such manufacturing will open in the city.

[...]

> Apple will also expand data center capacity in Arizona, Oregon, Iowa, Nevada and North Carolina, all states with existing Apple capacity. The company confirmed that mass production of chips started at a Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. facility in Arizona last month. Bloomberg News recently reported that plant is building chips for some Apple Watches and iPads.

Makes sense from a business perspective - there's significant growth potential for them as their presence in web tech is approximately nil.

Combined with a properly headless fork of their OS stack (think Darwin, not OS X Server) they could spin up a highly competitive solution using entirely "B-team" resources.

A modern version of the Xserve RAID for high speed flash storage could be very interesting.

The Mac Mini could be used as small blades.

or they could do something really wild, like take the Oxide rack scale approach and make something big for DCs.

But they might also want to get a piece of the prosumer homelab market that Ubiquiti is in?

Apple has no interconnect technology comparable to what Nvidia ships to datacenters. The larger Nvidia clusters measure their addressable memory in terabytes, the value of Unified Memory at that scale is practically negligible (if not wasted bandwidth).

You're making some pretty handwavy generalizations here without a solid grasp on why Nvidia dominates GPGPU compute.

Still in a AAPL long position since $170 and waiting for the re-introduction of Xserve with a new Apple Silicon-based OS. [0]

Probably "aiOS" (Just guessing).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40278371

Anyways, the land (obviously in Texas) is already purchased and has been sitting empty. The unbuilt factory keeps getting more expensive though.

The Xserve, itself, was a 1U unit that was pretty much the same (or lighter than) any other 1U server (we also had HP and Dell servers that were heavy). The weight distribution could be weird.

That stupid drive bay was a proprietary nightmare. The disks cost a fortune.

However, from what I can see, this will be for "internal-use" servers. I don't think they will be selling iron; just services run on the iron.

Now to be real, Apple has been announcing these multiple hundred billion dollar investments every four years like clockwork. They did it early in Trump's first term, they did it again early in Biden's term, now they're doing it again. But for all of the "Yeah, this is what tariffs are for! Hoo ya!" rhetoric, note that companies like Apple have far, far more to lose than what America "gains" by acts like this.

The Americas in totality account for 42.3% of Apple sales.

I mean...this is all so silly regardless. Even if the US accounted for 100% of sales in the Americas (protip - it doesn't remotely), that would STILL mean the majority is outside of the US. But in reality in US is only a fraction of Americas sales, and it's a strong majority sold elsewhere.

"In other coutries"...any particular ones?

It was even well-intentioned, but the unforseen (although predictable in direction if not magnitude) consequences are in fact disastrous.

I have wondered about how to repeal Prop 13, but I can't come up with a repeal that doesn't do equal and opposite damage.

The opposite damage I'm talking about is forcing people to lose their houses for inability to pay current-FMV property taxes. Mostly older/retired/fixed income people. This would apply to any phase-in schedule too.

I do find it slightly offensive that you would insinuate that hiring in Texas is solely about less worker protections and not that we have plenty of skilled workers in one place and with a lower cost of living.

I'm a worker not an owner,and I prefer living in Texas at this stage in my life and have turned down offers to move back to California.

Working in tech in a big Texas city easily puts you in the top 10% of the cushiest jobs in the US. Based on how I've been treated here, I really doubt that worker protections (or lack thereof) is the real driving force behind more tech jobs moving here. We are far from being oppressed here.

The most likely driving force of tech moving to Texas is that mid career professionals like myself don't see a future in California due to the insane cost and bad vibe of raising a family there. It's a great place for people just out of college, but Texas is a better place to settle down unless you are pulling an outrageous salary. The other big advantage California has is VC and startup networks being located there, which is also something that primarily benefits early career people rather than those of us that need a stable job at an established company.

It's also worth pointing out that Texas has long had a large technology industry presence. The dominance that California experienced during the early 2000s through to mid 2010s is an outlier and it shouldnt surprise anybody that things are evening out.

Most countries don't have the resources to do much, but even then they can try their hardest not to be beholden to any single foreign country coughChina, Americacough.

This doesn’t stop Trump from pressuring and squeezing and making false claims to justify his standing point. Expect an unstable trade environment due to tariffs and retaliation. This will hurt small businesses that have even more complex environment to operate in.

I.e. My preference for apple CarPlay supersedes my concerns on GPT running over my contents. Though the UI/UX has made it next to impossible to turn it back on.

What a world to live in.

How did you turn Siri off in the first place? That's where I'd start...

Settings -> Apple Intelligence & Siri:

Talk and Type to Siri -> turn all this back on

Allow Siri When Locked -> turn this back on

IMO, moving towards AI just leads to increased uncertainty and undesirable outcomes, which is something several journalists reviewing Apple Intelligence have attested to.

It feels like it was a residual timer or something but I have never set anything like that - it is quite strange.

Apple is stuck and it’s AI will never be good enough until those creatives embrace it. Right now it’s disdain when mentioned.

This is where it’s being pushed and marketed but I’m not actually sure it’s the best use case.

So far it’s not though.

AutoCAD came to the Mac when Intel was shitting the bed (with aggressive OEM contracts for first party system integrators that prevented AMD adoption across HP/Dell/Lenovo-lines) and Windows 11 was being forced on users.

WINTEL played the monopoly game too hard and is starting to lose ground.

You love to see it.

> The problem is AI current best use case is creative work, art, music, programming

By “best” do you mean “marketable?”

Seems weird to see a bunch of creatives and creative professionals “disdain” a tool and still say it’s “best” for them…

Even more annoyingly, sometimes there is a beep! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LLM Siri cannot come fast enough.

Being able to chat casually with low latency, correct yourself, switch languages mid-sentence, incorporate context throughout a back-and-forth conversation etc. turns talking to these kinds of systems from a painful chore into something that can actually add value.

The precise mechanism LLMs use for reaching their probability distributions is why they are able to pass most undergraduate level exams, whereas the Markov chain projects I made 15-20 years ago were not.

Even as an intermediary, word2vec had to build a space in which the concept of "gender" exists such that "man" -> "woman" ~= "king" -> "queen".

Maybe I'm asking for an explanation :)

Since you seem to understand the mechanism, can you do a 3 line summary please?

Make a bunch of neural nets to recognise every concept, the same way you would make them to recognise numbers or letters in handwiting recognition. Glue them together with more neural nets. Put another on the end to turn concepts back into words.

For a less wrong but still introductory summary that still glosses over stuff, about 1.5 hours of 3blue1brown videos, #4-#8 in this playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDNU6R1_67000Dx_...

Fully automated.

> Sorry, my religion forbids me from watching talking heads.

What about professional maths communicators who created their own open sourced python library for creating video content and doesn't even show their face on most videos?

You're unlikely to get a better time-quality trade-off on any maths topic than a 3blue1brown video.

He's the kind of presenter that others try to mimic because he's so good at what he does — you may recognise the visuals from elsewhere because of the library he created[0] in order to visualise the topics he was discussing.

[0] https://docs.manim.community/en/stable/faq/installation.html

There's also a playback speed slider in YouTube. I use it a lot.

  "The user has requested 'remind me to pay my bills 8 PM tomorrow'. The current date is 2025-02-24. Your available commands are 'set_reminder' (time, description), 'set_alarm' (time), 'send_email' (to, subject, content). Respond with the command and its inputs."

A Markov chain (only using the probabilities of word orders from sentences in its training set) could never output a command that wasn't stitched together from existing ones (i.e. it would always output a valid command name, but if no one had requested a reminder for a date in 2026 before it was trained, it would never output that year). No amount of documents saying "2026 is the year after 2025" would make a Markov chain understand that fact, but LLMs are able to "understand" that.

I don’t ask Siri for facts (just like I don’t ask LLM’s for facts). As long as it can correctly, understand what and when I ask to be reminded about something, that would be a huge improvement for me.

That and being able to map “Bedroom Fan”/“Bedroom Fan Light” to “Bedroom Fan Lights” without having to specify aliases (and even then it hearing me wrong).

I’ve see Home Assistant working with LLMs and it can understand groupings that I never explicitly defined which is very nice. I can say “Turn off all overhead lights” and it will find all my overhead lights and turn them off. Siri/Alexa can’t handle those tasks currently.

Try asking ChatGPT to remember some obscure film you can only remember very hazy details about - really random stuff - I bet it will identify it for you I a few tries.

You can also totally miss spell words, use messed up grammar and it has no problems at all

I had a birthday invite with clear date and time: so I asked it to add to my calendar.

It just said, “add what?” repeatedly until finally deciding it needed to send it to chatGPT to help. Which it did, then just returned the text in the image without taking any action. Then I say “can you add the event now?”

“Add what?”

So I try copying the text from the image in photos and giving that to Siri to add as an event. Surly this can work?!?

Nope.

It’s just utterly pitiful.

...that will grind your request to set email Vacation Mode through the world's worst speech-to-text, jam the text into Chat GPT, and spend the next three minutes reading you an uninterruptible 3 minute essay about violence.

This is what our "AI accelerated" chips give us in return? What a disgrace

Then he’d find a way to make it the #1 AI developer platform or distort reality until it is.

And then everything needs to have the /opt/brewsomethingsomething PATH. /bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin not good enough.

  "The /opt/ directory is normally reserved for software and add-on packages that are not part of the default installation"

I don't understand why people complain about Apple neglecting developers when desktop Linux provides a superior experience aside from the rare times you need to compile an iOS/Mac specific application.

It's just not hard! It's not more work! And yet the meme about it being more trouble just. won't. die.

You people are supposed to be technologists! Why won't you spend 20 minutes of one time setup to get a better experience?

Not all hardware works? I don't see anybody complaining about having a limited set of hardware options when they buy Apple! Canonical maintains a list of fully compatible computers; just pick one, buy it, and you wind up with a computer just as easy to use as Mac OS but without the endless paper cuts of using a system that has no respect for you at all and thinks it knows better

Edit: In case it's not clear from my initial, gut-driven snark: I definitely think if you use a reasonably popular distro (commercially backed or not) in 2025, you should never have any trouble connecting peripherals to it, with the possible exception of Bluetooth, which I hear also applies to macOS.

I have no idea how this is supposed to even work, and since it's not my computer I don't mess around trying to install drivers. I just use my phone to call in for Teams.

Things happen, let's not act like any OS is perfect.

The only issue Linux really has is when new chipsets come out you might need to wait 6 months or so for the drivers to be updated. But to be completely fair, on one of my laptops I had no webcam support for like six or seven months until Windows update decided to finally install it for me.

If you need a significant amount of hard drive space, Macs are almost always exorbitantly expensive. I make music so I find myself dual booting between windows and Linux. I don't want to speed 3k+ on a MacBook just to get a 4TB SSD I can add to any Windows PC for 200$.

Plus on Linux you can customize your personal experience to a much greater level. If you dislike X,Y,Z you can disable it or find an alternative.

Both OSX and Windows are cramming so much monetization into the OS, there's a very real feeling that I'm just sharing my computer with a giant corporation rather than actually owning it.

That's basically what I do now, my old M1 MacBook air is more than good enough for LeetCode and I'm more or less know it's never going to fail.

You mean a few month after a new MacOS version has shipped and they've got time to fix all the bugs it introduced, right?

The main problem I have with living in a Gnome desktop environment, is with the keyboard. I'm not willing to abandon my use of Emacs control+meta sequences for cursor and editing movements everywhere in the GUI. On macOS, this works because the command (super/Win on Linux/Windows) key is used for common shortcuts and the control key is free for editing shortcuts.

I spent a day or so hacking around with kanata[0], which is a kernel level keyboard remapping tool, that lets you define keyboard mapping layers in a similar way you might with QMK firmware. When I press the 'super/win/cmd' it activates a layer which maps certain sequences to their control equivalents, so I can create tabs, close windows, copy and paste (and many more) like my macOS muscle memory wants to do. Other super key sequences (like Super-L for lock desktop or Super-Tab for window cycling) are unchanged. Furthermore, when I hit the control or meta/alt/option key, it activates a layer where Emacs editing keys are emulated using the Gnome equivalents. For example, C-a and C-e are mapped to home/end, etc.

The only problem is, this is not the behavior I want in terminals or in GNU/Emacs itself. So I installed a Gnome shell extension[1] that exports information about the active window state to a DBUS endpoint. That let me write a small python daemon (managed by a systemd user service) which wakes up whenever the active window changes. Based on this info, I send a message to the TCP server that kanata (also managed by a systemd user service) provides for remote control to switch to the appropriate layer.

After doing this, and tweaking my Gnome setup for another day or so, I am just as comfortable on my Linux machine as I am on my Mac. My main applications are Emacs, Firefox, Mattermost, Slack, ChatGPT, Discord, Kitty, and Steam. My Linux box was previously my Windows gaming box (don't get me started about frog boiling on Windows) and I'm amazed that I can play all my favorite titles (Manor Lords, Hell Let Loose, Foundation) on Linux with Proton.

[0]: https://github.com/jtroo/kanata

[1]: https://github.com/hseliger/window-calls-extended

I have to work with old machines and legacy operating systems quite a bit in my day to day and I always am going to prefer something lighter and with less ways to shoot myself in the foot w.r.t. POSIX compliance. MacOS is Unix certified so I appreciate them being somewhat reserved in the features they add on top of POSIX.

Modern GNU userland utils are nice and fun but if you are looking for compatibility it's best not to use them. Consequently, the MacOS situation doesn't bother me especially given you can install more up to date tools if you want. I think keeping the defaults older and more compatible is a good thing.

In the end it was was easier to rewrite in Perl than to keep maintaining that thing, struggling for hours to find ways of implementing every little bit of functionality that worked reliably on every OS. You'd add or fix something, and the tests would break on FreeBSD. You would fix it there and it would stop working on NetBSD. And so it goes.

If I write a script using BSD esque tools I can be reasonably sure they will work on any Unix-like, whereas if I write/test my script on a machine using GNU utils, I'm fairly likely to accidentally use a GNU extension that would cause the script to fail on an older Unix-like OS. For instance, I do a lot of work migrating code off of AIX,and I need the scripts I develop to work on AIX when I'm gathering environment information from customers. I can't just assume they will have a ~2020+ implementation of Unix userland tools with all the GNU extensions and nice features. Sometimes the machines have been sitting quietly in the back of a data center not being updated for quite a while and will have more "90s style" of Unix tools.

I prefer to use the tools running locally on the same OS I’m working with. For that, MacPorts is great.

We have maybe fifty or a hundred million people rotting away in areas where jobs are scarce and housing is plentiful, because we used government policy to shut them out of areas where jobs are plentiful and housing is scarce. We systematically exported jobs from places that aren't big cities because they can be performed overseas and our aristocracy can still profit from them by owning those people overseas.

I don't know if returning to a little more deliberate of an economy is even a partial salve for the place we've found ourselves, but I don't think this laissez faire thing is sustainable for a whole lot longer. We are overleveraged, and arrogantly delusional about our sway at the moment; "Ownership" is not some valuable skill. The fall of an anchor currency and global conversion to an alternate financial network would be a spectacular thing, an astroid striking terrain, which might leave craters on entire other continents from secondary ejecta. World wars have been fought over less.

A command economy has different elements of the economy ordered around to do what leadership wants.

That seems a lot more likely.