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原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43404586

Hacker News上的一篇讨论串围绕着《连线》杂志的一篇文章展开,文章标题为“‘这是一场抢劫’:联邦审计员对DOGE感到震惊”,这篇文章大概讲述了联邦政府内部一些有争议的变革。评论者们表达了对DOGE(一个未具名实体)盯上社保基金并助长腐败的担忧。一些人认为社保制度本身就是一个类似庞氏骗局的缺陷系统,而另一些人则认为它是至关重要的。一位评论者认为DOGE的行为有利于专制政权。人们还对DOGE利用人工智能进行决策以及拆除重要项目表示担忧。有人反驳说,传统方法在打击腐败方面并不有效。一些人质疑现有联邦审计的价值,并列举了一些看似浪费的支出案例。另一些人则认为,与战争开支相比,一些所谓的可疑支出是可以接受的。总的来说,人们对政府现状以及未来的走向感到不安。


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'It's a Heist': Real Federal Auditors Are Horrified by Doge (wired.com)
51 points by mdhb 39 minutes ago | hide | past | favorite | 21 comments










Yes, it is theft of the US Treasury, pure and simple. DOGE is salivating to get their hands on the Social Security Trust Fund, a fund all US people paid into over the past ~80 years.


I'm not defending DOGE here but the Social Security "Trust Fund" is more of an accounting gimmick than a real fund. It's not like a regular individual trust fund with a named account beneficiary. Excess Social Security taxes that weren't immediately needed to pay current benefits were used to buy Treasury bonds (or bills). All of the funds are co-mingled. One branch of the government owes money to another branch of government but there are no real assets.


Yes, but it's an important accounting gimmick.


The sooner we can get America off of relying on Social Security and into a real investment program, the better.

SS is literally a ponzi scheme disguised as a social insurance program. Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k and some % of returns was skimmed off to be redistributed to low income earners. At least then we'd all be honest about what the programs goals are and how much money is redistributed.



Counterpoint: No thank you!


The money is redistributed from your pocket, via taxes, to the pockets of primarily billionaires who don't need more money.


Social Security payout is the same whether you make $176,100 a year or $50 million a year.


You're doing that thing where you are creating a plausible justification of their goals and methods that they have not in fact presented and that is not real. The fact that someone could have a good reason for wanting to change social security does not mean that musk does, or that any good result can come from this one.

They are doing this illegally, these are crimes. Stop propagandizing in support of them.



This is a crazed scheme from wall street. No thanks.


Without paywall: https://archive.ph/sJcvp

I hope this stays up and we can have some quality discussion about what is ostensibly a historical moment in time: the autophagy of a formerly democratic government.

Long term (and short term, looking at the stock market) this can't be good for business right?! Who benefits?



The honest answer is that other autocratic regimes, who were enemies of the US until a couple months ago, greatly benefit from this.

But it is bad for business, and once the entire business community in the US figures that out, I honestly do predict that this experiment in anti-Americanism is going to fail.



They're not CPAs, they have zero auditing experience, and the federal government is one of the largest entities on Earth. What could possibly go wrong? It's insane that the Republican Congress allows this to continue, but here we are.

From now on, whenever you hear "DOGE did this" or "DOGE did that", or "Trump did this" or "Trump did that" - just remember they're doing it with the blessings of this Republican Congress, because they can put a stop to this at any time of their choosing.



Not only that but they're feeding all of this data into their "AI" and letting it make the decisions on hiring/firing and cutting programs, as well as detecting "fraud". They're absolute charlatans.


The "Real Federal Auditors" should go on a game show and play against the "Real Billionaires."


Regan and Clinton already cut everything to the bone (aside from the military), so everything Doge is doing is just gimmicks to justify going after important programs like medicaid and social security because the conservative project is to return the united states to the 1890s.


Even the military. 1990s military cuts were pretty severe and set us up for some of the profiteering that happened during Iraq and Afghanistan by private companies.


if the “proper way” was effective we wouldnt be here. theres deep rooted careers propping up the corruption. the fed can no longer be allowed to indebt every citizen for the “greater good”. have to face the reality of numbers.


Actually auditors do allow you to face the reality of numbers.

Of course, historically speaking, kleptocratic conservatives and liberals then promptly ignore the auditors and keep doing whatever they please.

Now in this case, the kleptocrats are just cutting out the auditors altogether since they had no intention to face the reality of numbers in the first place.

The honesty and openness with which this particular group of kleptocrats approach the practice of their corruption is praiseworthy in a certain sense. /s



Are these the same auditors that led to U.S. citizens' tax dollars funding transgender surgery shops in India? Two million dollars to understand the psychological effects of losing rock-paper-scissors? If so I don't put too much stock in their opinions.


Two million dollars? Conservatively less than a penny per taxpayer? This is what you’re worried about?


these sound fine to me. what isn't fine is sending 2000 lb bombs to annihilate Gaza.






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