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原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38429291

许多评论都提到了 Brother MFC 型号,特别是 MFC-490CW 或带有内置扫描仪的类似型号。 至于是否解决了驱动程序问题,许多人指出他们在使用 Brother 打印机时不再遇到此问题,这表明现代 Brother 打印机往往具有更好支持的开箱即用通用驱动程序。

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Brother have gotten to where they are now by not innovating (retro.social)
873 points by anotherevan 23 hours ago | hide | past | favorite | 680 comments










Tangent, but related:

My dad is restoring a 1969 MG Midget. The right turn signal stopped working. Using nothing more than a voltmeter, I found a disconnected wire and a short to the frame.

I replaced the entire length of wire that was failing with $3 worth of wire, solder, and heat shrink tubing.

The lesson here is repairability and simplicity.

We’re constantly lectured to be “environmentally aware” by companies that no longer ensure their products will last a lifetime. There is 0 reason a modern phone couldn’t be used for the rest of your life. My Brother printer is nearing 12 years and is still on the same damn print cartridge. My Neato robotics vacuum has had countless parts replaced and is about the same age.

If you truly want to be a good steward of the earth, stop demanding/consuming latest and greatest, endless product and UI refreshes, and instead demand 30+ years out of a product (with small repairs).



Your 1969 MG Midget is enormously polluting and a death trap in a crash. The turn signal is small and dim and barely visible to other motorists in bright sunlight. The ride sucks and the reason it’s easy to repair is there’s almost no interior structure or noise or thermal insulation to remove.

Over a 200,000 mile design lifetime, a modern car is way more reliable and way less work to repair than your MG Midget (by virtue of not breaking as often in the first place). Yes, today’s cars aren’t designed to be collector items that will sit and rot in a barn not being driven and get easily restored by amateurs in 50 years, but why should they be?



The reason it's easy to repair seems to be that the wire is accessible. That turns out to have nothing to do with LED vs. incandescent signals or the lack of a catalytic converter. It probably has nothing to do with crumple zones either. It may have something to do with the lack of cabin insulation, but I honestly doubt it.

But the point being made about repairability (and simplicity) seems good.



> a modern car is way more reliable and way less work to repair than your MG Midget

Modern cars are often more work to repair. They're not particularly modular, and to the extent that they are, they often bury one module under several layers of others. It requires you to disconnect and move working parts and assemblies to uncover the broken one.

Modern cars also use replaceable assemblies to speed up repairs, but it also means that even for small problems like a damaged wire in a harness, you often have to rip out the entire system it is "inside" of and replace it completely. The manufacturer has tons of ways of requiring you to "over replace" parts like this on a modern vehicle.

> but why should they be?

That's not an excuse to make them as disposable as they've become. You can't use "the climate" to blindly turn this into a black and white issue.



Is it a death trap? Totally. But you could put a cat on it and dramatically reduce emissions. Consider also that initially producing a car is a major contributor to the environmental impact of a car.


Last I calculated this, a new car emits in the range of 8-15 tonnes CO2e (lower range for gas cars, upper for some EVs before they started guaranteeing renewable energy in production).

Driving emissions numbers I remember off the top of my head are Swedish averages, around 2.5 tonnes CO2e per year (15000 km/year). This is averages for the Swedish car fleet, which tend to be smaller models and more modern than many countries.

So: sure, production emissions are a big factor, but driving the car can easily win the efficiency savings back in a fraction of the car’s lifetime.



> Consider also that initially producing a car is a major contributor to the environmental impact of a car.

Not if you drive it very much/for very long. See this graph [1] (from this article [2]) for instance. Note that they're evenly diving 173,151 miles across the 13 "years" (and don't ask me why they decided to make the x-axis "years").

And that's with a modern fuel efficient car, not some ancient one.

[1] https://graphics.reuters.com/ELECTRIC-VEHICLES/EMISSIONS/rlg...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...



>modern car is way more reliable and way less work to repair than your MG Midget

My current car, which cannot be jumpstarted since it has a 48v battery for ignition and driving, and has dash-breaking OTA updates requiring a visit to the dealer or a proprietary 1200 usd software, and can be easy stolen by unplugging a headlight and feeding data into the common bus, would disagree.



I think a better example might be a similar era john deere tractor. It was designed to replace expensive human labor and was designed to be simple and to be fixed.

I also wonder about the original humvee, which I think was designed to be "user" serviced in the field.



Most modern cars will be in the landfill while that 1969 MG is still running.

The disposability has to be factored into the environmental impact.



> Most modern cars will be in the landfill while that 1969 MG is still running.

Most MGs have been in the landfill for decades. It wouldn't be a surprise if this car had been sitting on blocks in a garage for decades. It's disingenuous to imply this car is still running for any reason other than because it has an owner that both wants to restore it and has the ability to do so.

I suspect once its restored there's a fair chance that it'll park in a proper garage and be driven a couple of times a month on nice days during summer until the days start cooling off and it gets stored for winter.



Wrong. 2/3of a cars pollution are produced in production. The fuel consumption, polluting as it is, needs 20+years to catch up to the gestation environment damage of a car. Perverse as it sounds, old rusty clunkers are more environmental friendly.


You missed the entire point of what I wrote.


Using climate change as justification for enshittification is a good way to feed denialist narratives.


Not to mention the irony that they use climate change to support polluting the environment with waste.


Give it a rest. If you actually want to make an impact on pollution, stop buying cheap Chinese junk and campaign for a nuclear power plant.


Could you please stop posting swipes and personal attacks (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38415461)? You've been doing it repeatedly, unfortunately, and it's against the site guidelines. You can make your substantive points without any of that, so please do.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.



I used to work as an electronics technician.

To do some wiring that'll be bulletproof and last:

1. get wiring rated for under-the-hood heat (the wiring sold at auto parts stores is no good for that)

2. get crimp-on connectors

3. cut the plastic off the crimp-ons

4. put heat shrink tubing on the wire, well away from the end

5. crimp the connector on

6. solder the crimp joint using a thermostat controlled soldering iron

7. move the heat shrink tubing over the joint, and heat it with a bic cigarette lighter to shrink it on

8. voila!

P.S. Crimped connections don't last. After about a year, they'll work loose a bit from vibration, and corrosion will creep in, and you'll get a loose connection that is very frustrating to find. Soldering it prevents that from happening.



Soldering crimp connectors (that are not otherwise designed for it) will reduce the flexibility of the wire and introduce stress concentrations. Those stress concentrations will reduce the fatigue life of the harness.


As I mentioned, the wire needs to be properly supported, then there won't be any stress risers. I've never had one crack and fail on me.


> I've never had one crack and fail on me.

Well, I can't argue with that.



Soldered connections are a no go in automotive. Crimped is way tougher for vibrations. Corrosion shouldn't be getting in with heat shrink or a good connector.


I wrote crimp and solder. Not solder.

Take a look at these:

https://www.amazon.com/Qibaok-Connectors-Insulated-Electrica...

Crimp a wire in it. Look at it from the connector side. You'll see the bare conductor inside the connector. That's where the moisture gets in. Heat shrink tubing won't shrink enough to cover that. Wicking solder into it will seal it against moisture and corrosion.



Yeah I see your issue. You're not using the right connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/JRready-Connector-Waterproof-Electric...

The cheaper knock offs can work well, too.



A crimped and soldered connection is weaker than a properly-crimped cold-welded connection.

Solder will fill any voids in your contact, causing the bond to break as your entire assembly heats and cools.

Solder will also wick up the strands, making the resultant wire brittle.

Moisture ingress can be solved with the correct wrapping. After all, the extruded PVC insulation on the wire in the first place shrunk to fit it, right?



Yup, and those are garbage - for the reasons you've identified. Marine grade or bust. Look I'm no fan of crimps but you're giving terrible advice here.


> you're giving terrible advice here

Never had trouble with the completed soldered/crimped connections for decades. I use them in my car. With crimp-only, it's only a matter of time till I get erratic connects. It's particularly irritating with the stereo, as the speakers go in and out or suffer the crackling with a loose connection.



Soldering a crimp is not good practice, a correctly done crimp will not come loose (OEM connections are mostly crimped), and you risk making a brittle section if the solder wicks past the crimp.


A correctly done crimp uses enough force to form a cold weld. Unfortunately, without a calibrated machine to do it, it is pretty hard to determine if enough crimping force has been applied. Without the cold weld, corrosion will compromise the joint after a year or so. The solder will also prevent moisture from getting into the joint.

You're right about not letting the solder wick up past the connector. But that's not an issue if the wire is properly supported with a clamp.

My experience with crimps is electrical gremlins, with soldered crimps, no trouble at all.

OEM crimps also come with a molded housing designed to keep out moisture (and corrosion) and provide mechanical support for the joint. The crimp-on connectors at the auto parts store are vastly inferior.



> without a calibrated machine

That's called a crimping tool. They grow on trees. They're designed to achieve the correct amount of force to make a gas tight, permanent connection without destroying the contacts. All you need to do is select the correct connectors for the wire size you're dealing with and squeeze it.



Good luck with that. There are all kinds of crimping tools.

I watched a professional cable installer once crimp the coax F connectors on. I got the manufacturer and model number of it. It's from an outfit that only sold to professionals, and cost about $200. Since I was going to pull all the coax myself in my house, it was worth the money and I haven't had trouble with the results. The consumer grade crimping tools from the hardware store are terrible.

It's the same story with wirewrap tools.



I’m in automotive tech school right now and the advice in the context of the automotive sector (not electronics) is to always crimp where you can, and only solder if you absolutely must.


Crimping is quick and easy. My recommendation is crimp and solder, not just solder. Solder by itself isn't mechanically strong enough.


I'm curious to know more about how much vibration your solder joints see. I agree that most crimped connections tend to be sub-par but in my experience that is due to either bad tools, bad materials or both. Personally I use Wagos if waterproofing and/or space isn't a concern, marine grade crimp connections (and the proper tools) if it is.


Stuff attached to the engine for heat and vibration. The doors and trunk for moisture.

Interestingly, the speaker cable connections in the house are a nuisance with bad connections. Spring loaded connectors, even banana plugs, are just plain unreliable. Solder finally fixed them for good. (I'll solder on connectors, and then use a terminal strip.)

For the car, I also use rather expensive high grade stranded wire. I've been very happy with the results - the extra money pays off in time saved not having to repair them.



> used to work

Were you fired for soldering crimp connectors?



> My dad is restoring a 1969 MG Midget. The right turn signal stopped working. Using nothing more than a voltmeter, I found a disconnected wire and a short to the frame. I replaced the entire length of wire that was failing with $3 worth of wire, solder, and heat shrink tubing.

I want to see EVs/plug-in hybrids with similar levels of simplicity wherever possible. Virtually all vehicles in the US nowadays are completely overloaded with unnecessary sensors/electronics that are ripe for failure.



A tangent to add to your tangent

>There is 0 reason a modern phone couldn’t be used for the rest of your life.

At some point we must reach peak tech. In the Elite: Dangerous universe, there are quite a few ships you can use, but the majority of them are designs that are hundreds of years old. They are modular spaceships, of course, so they have received upgraded technology as time has gone on, but there are some quirky little ships flying around.

Compared to phones though, we'd need to get carriers to guarantee their old networks stay functional so old cellular radios will still function. Maybe when tech advances enough we CAN have a modular phone it will be less of a concern.



My father gifted me 35 year old speakers he had stored in his attic.

I installed them on an old Marantz amp, which is also connected to my (new) TV. As he visited me, he couldn't believe the incredible sound coming from his own speakers. My friends are shocked by it too, thinking I'm some audio buff that invested 20K.

My dad regretted the gift, went to buy the same amp yet with new speakers. Various sets of it, and failed to come close to the ancient set.

I'm not sure what exactly was innovated in 35 years of audio, but my guess would be costs, not quality.



I too had a similar experience... My dad had to liquidate his old HiFi set as kids were growing up, but after the nest was empty I gave him the old towers back!

We built a set of these: https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/zd... which are a throwback to the old HiFi sets of the 70s-80s. I _really_ like the reference sound of this set. The only thing they don't really do is the sub-sonic punch that action movies require, but that's probably ok for apartment living with neighbors.



Something that is frequently underestimated when it comes to the sound of speakers is... the rest of the room. Room acoustics make a huge difference, and if your room isn't set up right then high quality equipment is just a waste of money.


True. I'm lucky to have a perfectly symmetrical square living room with great acoustics. Well, I think that's beneficial. I have no idea really, but it does sound good.

And I'm quite sensitive to acoustics. In a lot of modern "minimalist" homes I'm upset by the sound bouncing around endlessly, sometimes it's so bad I can barely hear conversations.



> $3 worth of wire, solder, and heat shrink tubing

I don't understand how with those three things, you are able to renew the blinker service subscription.



>There is 0 reason a modern phone couldn’t be used for the rest of your life.

A phone, yes. A 'modern' phone conforming to our 'modern' expectations, no.

It would have to be significantly larger, less performant, and have a worse screen for it to last even ten years.

To make it repairable you'd have to make sure individual chips and capacitors are swappable, which costs ~2x power draw compared to a SOC.



>less performant

Only because the code we write is crappier



Looking for headphones that'll last me that long. Any recs?


> There is 0 reason a modern phone couldn’t be used for the rest of your life.

This is the reason I chose GNU/Linux phone Librem 5.



It’d better have long term support, some customers had to wait 4 years from ordering to get one.


> stop demanding ... and instead demand ...

As if large corporations base their business strategy on ethically/environmentally-minded consumer demands. At most they will propagandize or triangulate their engineering approach slightly - just enough for the media cycle to turn to some other issue. Gotta make those quarterly profits stand out!

Also - if you haven't changed a printer cartridge in 12 years than you are printing very little (which is fine, but it's not a typical use-case by which to evaluate longevity).

Other than that, definitely agree :-)



Some could argue that Brother printers adhere to the POSIX / UNIX philosophy: Solve one problem only, and solve it well.

In the end it somewhat boils down to pure greed. Instead of stabilizing production costs and/or reusing generic components to ease up manufacturing and repair - HP, Epson, Canon, Dell, Samsung, Kyocera and others try to hype their products with whatever tech stack is currently in trend. "growth hacking" is literally their job description.

There eventually will be a ChatGPT printer on the market. It's inevitable due to what kind of people manage a printer business: It's not the type of people that know how to build printers anymore.



Brother and Canon are both really good examples of long-term thinking in Japanese companies, along with Nintendo.

All these companies still have their original core competency: Canon still makes optics, Brother still makes home equipment like sewing machines, and Nintendo to this day has not discontinued their playing card products.

Yes, you can buy Nintendo playing cards. I have several sets both modern and older and they’re very good.

These companies think in terms of decades and half-centuries. They may fall trap to occasional trends, but they’re not the ones who rush into a market to innovate; Canon started making a clone of a Leica camera and happened into doing the first indirect X-ray system in Japan, as a single example.



And it’s not just Japanese companies that manage to pull that off. Some others have managed to do the same. See: Lego, for example. They branched out into movies, games, and parks, but their primary and core product remains bricks.


Lego has had issues for years, and has faced bankruptcy[1] through to several years ago just going "Whoops we made too many bricks..."[2]

Lego's original core competency was toys, but not plastic ones. The original Lego toys were nearly all wooden, but they gained success with the plastic bricks.

It's unfortunate how many spinoffs they've had that failed.

[1] https://business.time.com/2012/07/23/innovation-almost-bankr...

[2]https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298897



It's pretty much anything U.S. oligarchs don't control.


"As a language model I don't think this is the tone you should take in a letter to your printer manufacturer. Instead of the long string of expletives, here is a suggested letter of praise for your printers reliability, and an order for more toner instead:

..."



It will just silently "auto-correct" the letter instead.




But that was at least a bug, and a somewhat understandable one (though still stupid). I did my MSc on doing statistical methods to reduce error rates in OCR, and one of the methods that actually worked very well was various nearest neighbour variations over small windows of the pixel data. As part of that I did a literature review, of course, and there has been quite a lot of work on various algorithms for cleaning up images by trying to replace patches of pixels with presumed "clean" samples (sometimes from a known font, but more often by applying various clustering methods to patches from the image itself). Get that wrong and you'd very easily end up with something like this.

My own methods would also have easily produced this kind of error if you set the threshold for what to consider identical when clustering high enough. But for OCR the risk is somewhat mitigated by people not trusting it to be error-free, and so it can be an acceptable tradeoff if it reduces the overall error rate, but if you're outputting the raw pixel data and let people think it's an unmanipulated image you're begging for trouble.



You're probably right - I'd not make a good printer company executive, I'm not cynical enough.


Truth.

I got years of use out of a second-hand Brother 2350 printer and then eventually some of the electronics failed. I needed a new printer and I still owned a couple unused Brother toner cartridges. Imagine my joy when I discovered that Brother would sell me a new model that still used the same toner system.

Sticking with the same spartan feature set was fine by me. It's all I need. I didn't even bother looking at the other makers' low-end offerings. Brother's approach of treating printing as a solved problem (Build once; sell often) is so much simpler and more cost-efficient than the super-frisky alternative (Build many times; sell once)



> Solve one problem only, and solve it well.

I unfortunately discovered that my brand new Brother printer can only communicate over 2.4 GHz wifi, which conflicts with the 5 GHz my phone requires (my router can only do one at a time, and there's no way I'm switching as needed). So USB it is.

It's one of their cheapest inkjets (MFC-1010DW), but I selected it for features more than price. Wish I had read the documentation. I would have purchased the next model up.

Nicely compact compared to the ~10 year old Canon that died recently.



> my router can only do one at a time, and there's no way I'm switching as needed

That's abysmal! Every 5GHz Wifi AP I've ever come across lets you run both PHYs at the same time.

Please, on my behalf, sternly talk down to your router.

Even ignoring the massive issue of device compatibility: 5GHz and its protocols do not have anywhere the range and penetrating power of 2.4GHz. When I walk outside my house I can keep watching videos, but my laptop does this by transitioning to the 2GHz radio link modes.



In a lot of places 2.4ghz is unusable because of the density of networks transmitting in the space. I live in a SFH in a lower-tier metro and only 5ghz is performant


Most cheap wifi modules are all 2.4ghz, so printers, iot stuff, etc will almost certainly be 2.4ghz. Like 1$ cheap.

> only 5ghz is performant

Most of these barely need any bandwidth. A printer is possibly on the higher end of bandwidth, but I think the number of printers that support 5GHZ is possibly still single digits.



Doesn't help that Bluetooth is on the same spectrum


It's an 8 year old SBG6580-2 with radio button selection for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz on the web interface. I bought the cheapest one guaranteed to work with Xfinity to save on the rental costs. I'll upgrade when they force a move from DOCSIS 3.0. Just like I'll upgrade my cheapest smart phone with a replaceable battery when they force a move from 4G (or finally make a workable phone with a physical keyboard again).


Eww!

Whenever you replace it, get a separate AP and modem.

Also, DOCSIS 3.1 modems come with queue management. You may benefit significantly from an upgrade even if nothing else changes.



Just spend the $150 on an omada eap670 and call it a day.


oh, I actually needed to check routers recently. Prices like 5 years ago but specs for cheaper models are "slightly broken". Like 2.4+5 router, but only 100MBit ethernet (and full AC speed for wireless). So, you kinda have "cheap" models, but to get a real usable router you have to pay the full price. Marketing.


It’s pretty typical for printers (and a huge amount of iot devices) to only support 2.4GHz. I’m a little impressed that this is the first device you found this incompatibility with.

There’s some standalone dual-band access points on sale this weekend for



> I’m a little impressed that this is the first device you found this incompatibility with.

Don't be. A comprehensive list of our WiFi-capable devices are two smartphone models, the printer, and two laptops that are plugged in to wired connections.

Edit: Forgot about the two wireless work laptops.

For our purposes the 10 foot USB cable solves the problem fine.



The main function of the popular ESP32 microcontroller is to preserve 2.4GHz WiFi for the next 20 years.


Are there any microcontrollers in the 1$ to 5$ range with 5GHz?

And/or documented microcontrollers that are purchasable in the states?

Won't 2.4GHz have better range anyway over 5GHZ?



The ESP32-C5 has dual band support: https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32-C5

I think that 2.4GHz having longer range is a myth. When I worked on WiFi for Google Fiber we tested it pretty extensively and didn't see any common building materials that attenuated 2.4GHz more than 5GHz. Historically, the problem was that routers often selected low-power channels for 5GHz. If you use a channel where the maximum power is permitted, 5GHz is just as good.

The 5GHz band plan is kind of complicated. You will want to ensure that you get a 160MHz channel. How you accomplish that varies by region, unfortunately.



This is going to become a bigger problem over time. A lot of the embedded chips that provide WiFi only supported 2.4GHz. There’s a whole bunch of devices that just aren’t going to work.


I haven't actually had any printer at all for a while, but we had a cheap networked double sided Brother laser that lasted for ages.

One of the best bits was the no nonsense Windows drivers and easy Linux Postscript compatibility that just worked out of the box.

I was willing to forgive a whole lot of flaws due to it's low price, but it turned out have very few.



I never got actual Postscript to we work on Linux and my Brother. It looks like the ripping runs on the host side, and what gets printed is bitmaps. Works fine on Mac and windows though.


I must have missed the Blockchain/Bitcoin printers




I mean, it's blockchain necessary to accomplish this? Probably not, but they're at least not building on top of a crypto currency.


I'm pretty sure mine came with some OCR PDF-generating software. It has Fax functions I never use, Copy functions that come in handy several times a year, and Scan I've used a few times. The web admin interface seems to have a lot of options.

But all that stuff doesn't get in the way of the core feature, network laser printing.



thanks I hate it. definitely wouldn't bet against you on that.


I feel like I bought the last good HP LaserJet that was ever made.

Many years ago, I spotted an HP Color LaserJet Pro m254dw online at Costco and bought it. It's been a fantastic printer. The toner never dries out, "empty cartridges" don't prevent it from printing. It is modern enough that I can use AirPrint to print to it, but old-school enough that it has an ethernet port. The supplies status page basically says "Just because it's at 0% doesn't mean you can't print, but maybe buy a new toner cartridge and replace it when the output gets bad." It didn't require any special drivers, there's no need to link an HP account, and it has a usable web-based management interface.

So far I have the following complaints about the printer:

* After some large amount of uptime (3mo? 6mo? I'm not sure) it won't respond to print requests. Rebooting it fixes the issue.

* Toner cartridges are expensive. I priced out something like $450CAD for a set of the three colour cartridges. I'm still on the starter cartridges and, even though they're "empty", the output quality is fine.

* The word "Color" in the product name is not properly localized to the Canadian market.

Obviously I'm grasping at straws as far as complaints go!

Honestly, this thing feels like I found a unicorn. I've been looking for a similar printer for my parents, but I haven't found anything from HP that ticks all of the boxes. The next one for them will likely be a Brother.



Don’t buy new carts. Have them refilled. The carts themselves are very expensive. The kit below is around $75 CAD to do it at home.

https://www.amazon.com.au/DINGLONG-Cartridge-Laserjet-M281fd...



I'm torn about refills to be honest.

One of my first tasks at my first job, like 25 years ago now, was to scrape crud off of a LaserJet 4 fuser. My boss explained that they tried using remanufactured toner cartridges to save money, but they found that these would deposit crud on the fusers. Thanks to tight budgets, we ended up scraping the crud off of the fusers using a screwdriver and only replacing the fusers if they were too far gone. They had switched back to HP cartridges before I started there, but the results of the remanufactured cartridges were still around for a few years.

We also used a product called Rubber Renue to rejuvenate the pickup rollers/pads as a bottle of that stuff (which lasted a LONG time!) was significantly less expensive than the maintenance kit that contained the new rollers.

The savings for that refill kit are significant, but I also don't want to potentially ruin my unicorn printer.



You can also send them away to be refilled! Have done this for high use lasers for years. https://inkjet411.com/?page_id=4779


I've done this... It works, but is messy.


Yep. As I said to the OP, you can also send them away to be refilled. For office environments, you have two sets of carts that can be swapped and filled.


Vintage HP LaserJets, FTW!!

I have a 4050DTN for regular B&W and a 5000TN for anything wide format. These two are absolutely bulletproof, I can get cartridges for my 4050 that can do 20,000 sheets at 5% coverage; a single cartridge got me through two degrees with zero problems. Currently on my third cartridge in almost a quarter century.

Will look into your M254DW as a colour option, per your experience with it.



I have had a Brother laser printer for 11 years. I am legitimately on my second toner cartridge. I try to tell family and friends not to bother with inkjet printers but they don’t listen.

My dad’s big fancy Cannon photo printer has caused him nothing but grief. He swears up and down he needs to be able to print large-format full color photographs, but I have never seen him do so. What I have seen is his black cartridge dry out between uses and fail when he needs to print a form.

My wife is occasionally frustrated by our inability to print color, but I am more than happy to drive to Walgreens or my companies office to print a color item once every couple months. An inkjets ink would’ve dried between prints.



We have 2 brothers for our small business, one as the main and the other as a backup (which we have also brought with us when traveling). We are heavy users, probably >10k pages every year, but we have only replaced the drum once and have successfully ignored the "optical photoconductor life over" message for nearly 2 years.

Once a new cartridge failed ("not recognized" error even though it was purchased through Staples) and the brother support person walked me through some secret squirrel reset code which I of course saved for future use. The fact I could get someone from the company on the line to help me was a rare experience for tech companies.

My only gripe with the toner cartridges is the requirement to enter a serial number to get a recycling mailing label. The serial numbers are miniscule.



Our 7 year old brother laser printer finally got its first cartridge replacement last year :) We don't print much, but that's the point, we just leave it sitting there, and when we want to print, it prints. Never had a problem with it in 7 years!


The most use my Brother printer got was three years ago when my seventh grader needed to print school worksheets and then we scanned them to be turned in. This was during the COVID lockdown school year, and yet it's STILL on the OEM cartridge it came with


One of the best purchases I have ever made is my Brother laser jet. I’m still on my first toner cartridge after three years. It works every time and never complains or updates.


Scored a brother MFC-7340 from someone giving it away. Think it was 10 yrs old when we got it a couple years ago, it does a wonderful job.


One of the worst offenses I've ever seen as an example of this is this trend with newer refrigerators (which I'm sure will brick after 2-3 years when the manufacturer stops supporting the software) where they have a camera inside that projects to a screen on the door. Cool, you can see what food is inside the refrigerator!

Do you know how else you can do that? by opening the door. We need to stop "innovating" features that absolutely no one needs, because clearly the result isn't a better product, just a messier, more complex one that is frequently over-engineered and under-supported.



The worst refrigerator innovation is including an RFID tag in water filters, and refusing to make ice or dispense water unless the filter is replaced within a certain timeframe. Google for GE RPWFE

The hack is to cut the RFID tag off a blank that bypasses the filter and tape it to a cheaper 3rd party filter.

The amusing thing is that its actually cheaper to replace the RFID sensor board in the fridge & use a generic filter than to use an official GE filter (re-using the cutout RFID tag from a genuine GE filter). The RFID sensor in mine died, and prevented it from dispensing water/ice. And no, I didn't choose this fridge. It came with the house when I bought it.



I have one of these refrigerators. I have to say the water quality is outstanding. I don’t have to drive to the water store anymore.


A great crowdfunded business would be to sell aftermarket kits for all the enshittified appliances. This somewhat exists already (my samsung fridge had frost buildup on the sensor, causing the fridge cycle to never come on!), so the business would be to cover 95% of all appliances in the last 15 years. The best innovation would be to develop a lego-style board repair kit that can be tailored to any specific model. So the same board can be used (with nominal reconfiguration) to repair/replace a Kenmore icemaker vs a GE. A deeper option would be to sell "retrofit kits" that allow you to gut everything except the motors/compressors/refrig circuitry. Or for a dishwasher, toss all the circuits and just use the frame.


Yes! I have a exercise bike in my garage that is mechanically sound but with a terrible monitor, would love to have it come up to the level of Concept2 machines.


Can I open the fridge while I'm at work to see if I need to get more milk on the way home? I believe it can also send reminders using AI to see if something is getting low. I thought it was dumb the first time I saw it, but there are genuine use cases that tempted me to put a wyze cam into my dumb fridge so I can get the same sort of features.

The worst example might be windows in the doors, so you can look into them. Except you put stuff on the door shelf and block the view or you can't really see inside all too well. Plus now you have introduce thermal issues.



On these smart fridges, I struggle to see how these are anything but gimmicks undermining the device's lifespan. Most cooking requires items from many sources. You can check your milk but what about the flour in the cupboard? AI reminders. Is that a subscription service or are advertisers being given your data?

How long are these manufacturers promising to support the hardware? If the fridge is internet-connected and support ends, at what point is that a security risk? This generally applies to most purchases these days...

I was looking in my garage and I found a cassette player my grandad gave me that still works. When I look around shops and at many things I own I see planned obsolescence everywhere. Personally, I find it really demoralizing.



Nobody cares what people need, they care what sells.

Don't have the link, but I once read a study analyzing the Asian market regarding electronics. The focus was on washing machines, fridges, etc. They discovered that more features, even if useless, improves sales.

So you'll have a washing machine with 50 buttons, 20 lights, 2 LED screens. People will buy that over any simpler one.

As long as we consumers behave like this, the other companies go out of business.



Silicon Valley has a scene about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcXu4_K1tMQ



I see now after having made this comment there's a sub-thread under this parent that discusses how useful this refrigerator feature can be. I guess I was just born 40 years too late. Seems impossibly silly to me.


"I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things."

Your parents' generation probably think a number of things that you use every day are "impossibly silly".



Not wanting to take away from any excuse to quote Douglas Adams, I think what they meant by "born 40 yrs too late" is that they are young(ish) and feel that being around 40yrs earlier would've suited them better.

Either that or it's Thursday, I could never get the hang of Thursdays.



ok but I’m not older than 35


I unfortunately can't find it right now, but I remember seeing a semi-famous quote from the 1950s/60s? calling out variable-speed windshield wipers as an absurd consumerist luxury emblematic of what's wrong with America.

The refrigerator camera sounds like the same kind of thing. Modestly useful feature that may well become standard-issue someday because the underlying components can be made very cheaply at scale.



Now if it had cameras in the back on each shelf so you can see what someone left back there obscured by other things, that might make that display worth it...


Can I also put in a request for a dedicated weight sensor/camera unit that sends a notification to my phone whenever somebody puts an empty milk carton back in the fridge?


This exists. Look up "Bottomless Coffee" - they have a beta for non-coffee products.


The insidious thing about it is that they won't just "let you see what's in the fridge", you'll have to sign up to "see-your-fridge-as-a-service" with their shitty app (that sells your location, buying habits, etc) and a $7/mo paywall. Also, since we're talking about Samsung, never buy samsung appliances. they are meant to break down.


Is it local only? It would be pretty handy if you could check while you were at the grocery store, I don't always plan my shopping list in advance so it'd be helpful to check things like "How much butter do I have" or "how full is the milk".

I thought there would also be electricity usage benefits but after looking at people online who have crunched the #s that might be negligible.



My first thought was similar, but in the opposite direction: the data collected by a non-local camera in a refrigerator (coupled with WiFi network details for location info) is something that Walmart and friends would pay a lot of money for.


If you want your refrigerator and freezer to save energy then make sure there is as little empty space in them as is possible. It makes the entire system more efficient, stable, and reduces the impact of opening the door.


The only part of that which is true is the bit about opening the door, since there's a smaller volume of air which can mix with the outside air.

That said it makes such a small difference that it's really not worth worrying about, in fact you might lose more energy keeping the door open longer to find the thing you want in your packed fridge.



While I definitely won't have insterest in these fridges, some of them (I'm thinking the Samsung) scan your fridges contents and let you know what's about to run out (milk, eggs, etc) for the next time you do a run.

Still not worth 1000usd to me, but more practical than "just seeing what's inside".



that's mostly really dumb, but I can see the reasoning. opening a fridge takes energy since it temporarily lets warm air in. theoretically, a fridge with a camera might save energy, but in practice, the difference is probably pretty miniscule


More important would be food life. When you open the door it dumps all the cold air and your food warms a bit.


Your comment reminded me of this:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_...

I'm just referring to the picture on that site of the segway.



Buying a black/white only brother laser printer solved all my printing problems.

Cartridges last for thousand of pages; no strange cloud requirements; the FritzBox registers the printer immediately and all devices in the local net can print.

Non of this was the case for my previous HP or Epson printers…



I think people forget that ink is a liquid which dries up and leaves a sticky mess. They think of the printer as a magic technology box that somehow is supposed to deal with that mess perfectly, without issues or waste.

Well it doesn’t work! Ink needs to be flushed to keep the lines clear. Inkjet printers need to print regularly for optimal performance and low waste. If you need a printer to sit on the shelf for 4 months between print jobs, laser is the only game in town. Toner is a solid powder and it lasts forever without issues. No clogging, no mess.



Shouldn’t a liquid not dry up if it’s sealed properly?


The container has to have holes through which to squirt the ink onto the page, and when ink is dispensed it is replaced in the container with air.


You could make one that doesn't have an air hole. Put a membrane between the air and the ink. Consider a standard reverse osmosis water tank--inside there's basically a big bag, pressurized air on the outside, water on the inside. The outside should stay dry, the inside shouldn't contact the air.

You still have the problem at the print head, though.



We don't forget this, we don't care. We buy a printer and it should print.


I remember something similar being the case with HP Laserjets a decade ago or so.

People were buying second-hand 1995-era Laserjets in 2010 because they were simply better than anything you could buy new. They... Just Worked.



The only problem with these ancient and durable HP Lasterjets - I used to use a 4L - is that they were slow. My modernish Brother HL2270DW - which I got for free at a garage sale because the toner cartridge was missing so they couldn't test it - is much faster and can print double-sided. And has a $20 aftermarket toner cartridge in it.


> The only problem with these ancient and durable HP Lasterjets - I used to use a 4L - is that they were slow.

That's not completely true.

Those printers sucked so much power you could brown out your local substation.

And the amount of ozone they kicked off could be smelled in a cube farm--I don't want to think what they would do to you in a home office.



We used old HP Laserjets in a warehouse up until about a year ago. Towards the end, we had to repair and replace them with increasing frequency due to the beige plastic becoming very brittle. As a result, the printers became hard to service and more prone to damage during regular use. Replaced with a cheap Brother laser.


I used to maintain/repair a couple of LaserJet IIIs (circa 1990), up until about 2010, when I got tired of the printer's footprint being so large, and retired my last computer with a parallel port. The LaserJet III was the VW Bug of laser printers in terms of being easy to repair.


Buying a black/white brother laser printer gave me just a single consistent issue that was entirely my own fault. It didn’t print in color.

So now I bought a color laser instead, and I couldn’t be happier.



My exact experience. It just works and it's fast. In the rare occasion I need a fancy color print, there's a store close by where I can order some nice prints with a few clicks.

Had an HP color inkjet before that. With that I felt like I did not have a printer.



It worked surprisingly well for my Epson so. Connect to WiFi, all devices find it, including Linux ones, without additional drivers or software.

Additional software is needed for photo prints (color management and stuff like that) and (maybe?) scanning. I didn't try scanning without additional software, as I installed it with the photo print software. And since that software inly works under Windows anyway, I never bothered with scanning under Linux.

Printing works just fine so.



GNOME ships a scanner app that can scan from many (newish) networked scanners without a driver. The UI is, ahem, about as minimal as you would expect from a GNOME app, but it works.

(Seriously, GNOME, whether to scan one side or two sides is actually important and the desired mode changes all the time. Would it kill you to dedicate some screen real estate to it, instead of filling everything with empty post-modern white space?)



To be fair I have the same experience with my HP LaserJet Pro (M148).

Consumer garbage printers are consumer garbage printers.



Which model do you have?


I bought a black and white laser printer (Brother HL-L2350DW) because paying a little extra for laser up front results in much total lower cost of ownership due to the cartridges lasting much longer than ink jet. I have had it almost 5 years and I've only replaced the cartridge once.


Cartridges that you can get from cheapinkcartridges.ru and they work just fine.


Innovation....

I saw a fridge that had an app so you could control it from anywhere.

My requirements for a fridge are remarkably simple, to the point the only practical use I could think of an app was alarm that I'd left the door open or something.

(If this particular app did have a door-open alarm, it wasn't on the list of features. It did say you could adjust the temperature from your office. A location I'm often worrying about the fridge.)



My dishwasher has a "wifi-button", so I decided to figure out what it does, as it turns out, it's completely useless. The only features you get is "you're out of rinse aid" and "Turn on remotely".

The thing is that turn on remotely is useless, it requires that you've added soap, closed the dishwasher and that it's turned on. At that point you might as well just set a timer.

There are two features I could see being useful: Auto-start during the night, when the electricity cost is lowest and a detailed error report, like heating element is 100% function, or water is leaking. None of those features will ever be available, because that's not why they are adding "smart" features.



We got a new dishwasher a while back and it came with a mobile app - this was a bit of a faff to get working but was mildly useful in that it would send a notification once the cycle was done.

Then after a few weeks the company decided they had to change their authentication scheme to something really complex and I couldn't be bothered - deleted the app and don't really miss it.



> There are two features I could see being useful: Auto-start during the night, when the electricity cost is lowest

Your dishwasher might not implement it, but the existence of wifi-connected start function probably means that home assistant could enable this.



My 20-something year old dishwasher has a delayed start option that I use to run it in the middle of the day. It's great. No app required.


I intentionally bought the dumbest dishwasher I could find. It has two cycles: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty", a "Heat Dry"/"Air Dry" selector, and a start/stop button. I could not find one that was simpler.

"Less to go wrong" is my mantra for appliances. I want to switch them on and forget about them.



Remote start could be very useful if you want to maximize self-consumption for your solar panels. Do they support that?


Dishwashers aren't very solar-friendly if you don't have net-metering.

They typically have a very powerful 2.5 kilowatt heater they run in bursts - for like 5 mins when prewashing, for like 10 mins when starting the main wash, and like 10 mins again when drying.

In between those times, the machine uses only ~60 watts for pumps.

I have often pondered what a world of machines designed to meet solar output looked like - and for a dishwasher it would involve the heater being modulated to match the solar output (and knowing that sometimes the wash cycle would take longer if a cloud was overhead so heating was delayed by a half hour).



Just have more dishwashers, and use them as storage cabinets: pick from a clean cabinet if you need tableware, deposit in a dirty cabinet when you are done and if you have at least three of them the transition is free to take a lot of time.


That sort of thing seems solvable with batteries used as a a capacitor, rather than trying to reprogram the dishwasher logic


I guess you could also use a small battery to help smooth things out.


I can't imagine a scenario where you've got a large enough solar system that you'd want to be running a dishwasher off it, and you don't already have some battery storage elsewhere in that system.


Waves from Australia

However, since my array is currently 4.4kw at 3 in the afternoon, a 2.5kw burst isn't a problem.



The money efficiency isn't great - if you had control of the design of the dishwasher, simply having a hot block of concrete inside that you heated when there was spare energy would work out far cheaper.

Concrete costs far fewer $$$'s than batteries do, per kwh of heat stored, it also doesn't require inverters, balancing or safety systems, ad lasts millions of cycles rather than thousands.



How expensive would it be, transportation included, compared to an insulated water container of comparable heat capacity?


Or maybe store hot water and heat it up at the best time...?


The water is too hot to store safely.

You can still slowly heat it up to 70 or 80°C and just add some extra heat on use, but that will still leave a lot of immediate power to deal with.



I tried to do things like this in my home. It turns out for washers, dryers and dishwashers you should just set a timer to start at noon.

Once you've started an appliance on a cycle it's going to keep running, even if the sun goes behind a cloud. So you don't need to start it when the instantaneous solar power is at its highest, you need to start it when the predicted next two hours of solar power are at their highest.

And it turns out you don't need complex monitoring to figure that out.



That's exactly what I'm using this for. I have a home assistant automation that starts the washing machine when the daily solar peak power (as estimated by a web service for my location) is reached. Of course, I have to prepare everything in the morning. On sunny or even just bright days, no grid power is used.


No, not out of the box. They don't really support any automation, you can build something using Home Assistant or If This Then That, but now we're already past what I care to manage. There isn't even HomeKit integration (which I noticed is a trend, Google Home will be supported, but not HomeKit).


At some point I discovered that the dishwasher I own has wifi.

I will absolutely never enable it.



Even a door-open alarm works better as an actual alarm than an app notification. My fridge does that: it beeps if the door is left open, so you can get your ass back in the kitchen and shut it. I don't want to receive a notification from my fridge app while I'm at work because my wife left the fridge door open at home (or vice versa), I want whoever is physically close enough to the fridge to leave the door open to be notified.

I have yet to see a single non-bullshit feature from any "smart" appliance, honestly.



>I want whoever is physically close enough to the fridge to leave the door open to be notified.

Same - although I have experienced an interesting extension of this: HomePods now have alarm detection (the intention being to detect a smoke/burglar alarm). It is also triggered when the fridge is left open, leading to everybody in the household getting a critical alert (which ignores silent mode).



A smart stove would let you start the oven preheating before you get home, thus saving a 5-10 minute wait before you can start cooking that frozen pizza you just bought. That is the only justification I've seen for a smart appliance I've seen.

I would like a smart fridge that lets me know what is inside - so I know if I should get milk or a salad on my way home. So far nobody makes that.



>A smart stove would let you start the oven preheating before you get home, thus saving a 5-10 minute wait before you can start cooking that frozen pizza you just bought. That is the only justification I've seen for a smart appliance I've seen.

I feel this is a terrible trade-off: a minor convenience, in exchange for a huge attack surface that could allow someone to burn your house down remotely. The folks who build IoT systems have neither the skill nor the economic incentive to keep these things secure for the 15+ year lifespan of a durable good like a cooking range.



> A smart stove would let you start the oven preheating before you get home, thus saving a 5-10 minute wait before you can start cooking that frozen pizza you just bought.

I'm sure this is practically not a real issue, but my OCD paranoia cannot fathom the idea of my oven being on while I'm not at home due to safety / fire concerns.



I have a fridge in our garage that has no such alarm.

It turns out it was a very simple Wifi ESP8622 project to wire up a reed switch + a magnetic door sensor to add such an alarm to Home Assistant.



I recently bought a LY washing machine that is smart. I now get notified when the wash cycle is done, this is actually useful for me as the laundry is not in the house so I can't head a buzzer or chirm. Is it essential? Probably not.


Yup, this is the proper use for connecting an appliance. Our washer and dryer are in the house but from my computer I can't hear the dryer, the washer doesn't even make a noise. (Note that we've had these for more than two decades, they're dumb by modern standards.) I've been wondering why somebody doesn't make a smart plug that can send a notification when it's connected appliance draws power in a specified fashion. (Both would be fine by setting a minimum power to activate, then below it for a specified period. Washer: The threshold would be set below the power the agitator draws. The delay would cover the rinse fill time. Dryer: Threshold for the motor that runs the drum, immediate trigger if it stops.)


We got an air fryer recently, a Cosori brand. Its app tells me when the cook cycle is done. I named the device "PHILLIP J AIRFRY", so getting a notification makes me smile. Yeah it's silly, but sometimes you need a little frivolity in your life.


Phillip J Airfry made me smile, love the name.


We got a humidifier today. Name of "MISTER ROBOTO".


Mine has a camera that shows you the contents of the fridge. It's been useful on many occasions.


Genuinely curious.. how well does this really work, with a real fridge? All the photos I've ever seen are of a staged fridge someone clearly spent an hour or two carefully arranging, and usually between 20% and 50% capacity.

Our fridge is often 75-95% full, and things I can picture this maybe being useful for - sour cream, pickles, condiments - are often pushed to the back or on the door. I have a hard time imagining anything besides mostly "oh look, the milk jug/large bowl of last night's leftovers is blocking the camera's view of this entire shelf".

It also doesn't solve the "is that sour cream at least 1/3 full?" or equally important "is it expired?" problem, which is almost worse, because seeing the sour cream container leads to a false positive, which means I don't buy more despite needing it.



>Our fridge is often 75-95% full

This is me too (or more realistically, my fridge is 95-105% full) but there's definitely people out there whose fridges are usually mostly empty and a camera could reasonably capture everything in it.



You can't see the details certainly, but figuring if something is there or is missing is solving the 80% case.


How does this work?

Our fridge is most of the time fairly full so I have a hard time imagining where would I put a camera to get a good overview of its contents. It seems that the best place is about half a meter outside. Even a fisheye would not be able to cover both door and the rest of it.



There are 3 cameras inside the door I believe.


Helpful to save you three steps and a lift of a hand to see whats inside?


I imagine the use case is more one of “I’m in the supermarket and I need to know if I have enough xyz left”


These two solutions are more fun.

- make something else

- buy more regardless and make a larger batch

They have fewer points of technical failure; they don’t create security attack surface; they save bandwidth; they get you talking to your friends, family or neighbours more; most food waste biodegrades, so it’s not really “waste”.



> most food waste biodegrades, so it’s not really “waste”

If your argument requires saying it's fine to just throw out food, maybe you should reconsider.



What litte food is wasted because people buy stuff they alrwady have by forgetting what's in the fridge pales in comparison the necessary effort and resources spent in building and installing cameras un a fridge and run the infrastructure necessary to connect those cameras to a phone over the internet.


for sure I haven't run the numbers, but I think you may be underestimating the impact of food spillage / waste. Not only is spillage huge in the US [1], but one has to take into account where the loss is.

A pepper that you buy, cook and then throw away represents a considerable investment:

  * you spent energy cooking it
  * your supermarket had to stock / refrigerate 1.x pepper to sell you 1.0, because of spillage
  * the pepper had to be transported from the land, to and fro various logistic centers (sometimes 100's of miles)
  * the farmer had to grow 2.x or even 3.x peppers to sell 1.0, because of esthetics (unfortunately) .. meaning often esticides, heating, etc
I am generally not in favour of IoT, and am not convinced that a camera will correct this issue. But make no mistake: food spillage has a huge impact.

1 : https://www.fao.org/3/bt300e/bt300e.pdf



I understand why that sounds like it should be true, but I'm not convinced that it actually works out; I can get an esp32-cam for


Sure, there's a way to talk down anything.


We were discussing the apps for the fridges, which naturally work well beyond physical proximity. One of the locations they work fine at is grocery stores.


Opening the door wastes energy. And it seems, mindlessly going to the fridge to see what's inside even though you know exactly whats inside, is a thing many people are doing. So there is an argument to be made, that a camera in the fridge is a useful feature. I'm happy without it.


If the budget for the cameras, screens and apps would be spend on extra isolation, the fridge would overall be more ecological. But hey. I understand. Gadgets sell more than quality.


If you want a fridge that’s really efficient, you can’t beat a chest/bunker freezer with a thermostat. Refrigerators lose all their efficiency from the vertically mounted doors which allow all the cold air to fall out instantly when you open the door. A chest freezer door is mounted horizontally so the cold air stays trapped inside, even when you open the door. This makes all the difference in the world!


You could get a glass door fridge?


That probably wastes more electricity; heat insulators and clear substances don't overlap very much.


Is that more heat waste than the habit of constantly closing and opening the door to check what's inside?


I don't have the ability to experimentally verify, but I would think so? A window is going to be there 24/7 and air doesn't actually have that high of a specific heat, so you'd really have to be constantly opening the door for it to come out in favor in my understanding.


I'm an impulsive shopper, so I often end up at a grocery store with no idea if, for example, I need to buy more eggs, or butter, or...

I'd love to be able to see/know what I have at home while I'm shopping.

But yeah, it's a minor convenience



It's likely useful when you're at the grocery store and can't remember if you need to buy eggs or not.


I rely on a shopping list like my grandma. Another scenario where not innovating is the way to go.


That does sound useful. I'd need a camera on each level with the amount I pack onto each shelf.


You can see every corner of the fridge with one camera? How?


My fridge also have an app, with usefull feature - to track when bottle of water is cooled. But. I need to login to app everytime I open this app. And there is no way to share access to the fridge to anyone else.


Exactly this.

Who decided to call useless ideas an "innovation" is beyond my understanding.



I need a printer to print. Ideally at acceptable prices (I know, ink cartrigaes are like razor blades and that won't change ever). Plus points if it can be connected to a network (which is a given today). I don't have to print when not at home (why would I fax something to myself when I am not at home?).

Ideally, as I print photos mainly, I get more then 4 colors and decent color management.

Added bonus for scanning (with or without document feeder).

Not much else there. Pay-per-page subscriptions are ok, by the way, price wise for home office use.

Then it comes down to innovation in the fields of color management, ink mixing and print heads and paper handling. And inks, of course.

Anything else is just pointless, and nothing I would call innovation.



Epson make EcoTank inkjet printers ink tanks that you refill from a bottle, not cartridges. It's vastly better than ink cartridges, there's no comparison on price, convenience or environmental impact. The tanks and bottles hold vastly more ink than a cartridge does. The printers are roughly the same price as any inkjet printer. I do not work for Epson.


I have an ET-8550 at home. Considerably more expensive than a comparable non-tank printer, with a factor of two give or take. Without a deal I got, it would have been out of budget.

Compared to a Canon Pro-200, they break even was somehwere around 300 printed a4 photo mark if I remember my detailed calculation correctly (850 bucks for the Epson and 460 bucks for Canon).

But yes, I love that printer! Because as a person, I do not think like my busoness case, hence with the tank printer I do kot think about print costs, as the purchase price is gone and mentally accounted for.

I never compared the non photo-capable EcoTank and whatever canon calls their tank printers to the cartridge cousins so.



Glad you like your ET-8550! That's quite a high end, expensive printer. I have a much less expensive one, though, on reflection, I agree the initial purchase price is higher than cartridge ink jets.


There are only so many A3+ sized photoprinters on the market. Decent ones that is that don't suck at B/W printing. It, for me at least, came down to either the ET-8550 or the Canon Pro-200. Break-even was somewhere around 300 a4 photos, based on retail price for the printer. So initially, I was inclined to take the Canon one.

Then I got a decent deal on a ET-8550, and the peace of mind to not re-run ink costs everytike you print, plus the Epsons home office printer functions, closed that decision. And the Epson print quality is really good, even B/W, so far, with the right media setting and paper, no colour tints whatsoever (at least that I can see).



It seems that nobody knows of ecotank... It should be the top reference in this thread.


I have L3150 or L3160 and it is good. 2/3 years mid usage run


Wouldn't it be better to have a fridge close the door automatically after one or two minutes?

If you get a notification at work that your fridge door is left open, it would stay open until someone gets home and manually closes it.



Nah, this requires hardware that makes the fridge more expensive.


know what innovation i want? a smart camera inside that can scan a label and remember the expiration date...then later on notice if i've used it or not and remind me to cook it/eat it if nearing expiration


That would be useful, however expiration dates are often printed so badly and in all kinds of locations that it seems difficult to make that work reliably. Also people wouldn’t want photos of their fridge contents being uploaded to a cloud AI all the time.


I have the solution for those labels, even if that hype is over for quite a while now: RFID tags! /s


Can somebody enlighten me why the above statement was sarcastic and why it was downvoted?

Aren't RFID tags on all groceries a viable solution to make product info available to a fridge?



Because RFID labels are orders of magnitide more expensive than bar codes and printed labels. The groccery margins are simply to small for that. Hence the sarcastic comment of using expensive tech (that had its own hype curve in the early 2000s), to solve the how-do-I-know-whats-in-my-fridge-without-opening-it problem.


IF RFID was useful for other purposes it would be worth the small cost (scale can bring RFID costs down - it would cost more than bar codes, but potentially can bring enough logistical benefits that overall it is cheaper). However so far the logistical benefits can't be realized because you can't be 100% sure you read all the tags in a room.


Mass readability is one of the reasons why logistics isn't using RFID tags atva global scale. Cost is another, and a major one.


It would be nice if there was a standardized machine-readable format for information like expiration dates. It would be neat to be able to track inventory in the fridge by just scanning a label when you put it in then scan and mark as empty when its done.


Sounds like a good idea until I think about our fridge. After the weekly shop the fridge is packed to the brim so much that the light barely makes it into some corners. How would a camera help here? Towards the end of the week the fridge is empty and I know I need to buy the usual. Use case dead in my head.


I solved the problem of a freezer door (upright) being left open. Shoved a plank of wood under near the front to increase the tilt. It shuts itself.


Isn't being level a requirement for the condenser pump?


I can't imagine a few degrees off from perfectly level is going to make a big difference.


It's an official installation guideline for Samsung fridges.


My fridge has an app store


My fridge has a door open alarm, and I wish it didn’t. I have yet to be like “wow, I’m so glad my fridge is beeping at me while I try to decide if I want chicken or taco leftovers”.


My Brother printer is one of my better purchases to be honest. I sound like a complete shill, but it's connected to wifi (and it just happily connects even if it's been off for a month or two), and all devices can just connect to it and print. Never need to reconnect or do anything with it. It's a printer that prints. I love it.


I got a brother B+w laser printer 4 years ago, plugged it into a switch and all my macs and iPhones found it, can print to it, and it just sits there waiting for a thing to print. Still on the original toner.

Couldn’t be happier with it



But will it blend?


Completely agree: it's one of the best purchases I've made.

Printers were a product category that were expensive for what they offered and were always kind of finicky. I can still remember never knowing if my printer was going to work when I needed it to or not.

Since I purchased a Brother printer all of those concerns went away. It works well, requires minimal set up, is reliable, and represents great value for money over a period of years.

I'm on my second printer from them in the last 10 years and wouldn't even consider a competitor unless there's a serious decline in their quality.

Edit:

Since I saw someone ask below my model is MFC-9340CDW



The best part I like is it provides a unique email address and hosts a server inside it. I can literally just email a pdf and get it printed on back-back pages, no commands, love it!


Downside is you have to email the documents you want to print to Brother (the company).

Think about that before you email anything you want to keep private.



Funny how the article seems to be selling this as "not innovating". I was genuinely surprised when I discovered that it was just a social media post and not some ad-entrusted clickbait repackaging that theverge.com article while trying to one-up it with the "no innovation" claim.




lol, end of article:

"And here’s 275 words about printers I asked ChatGPT to write so this post ranks in search because Google thinks you have to pad out articles in order to demonstrate “authority,” but I am telling you to just buy whatever Brother laser printer is on sale and never think about printers again."

(followed by chatgpt output)



"Tech innovation" these days means gating hardware features behind a subscription tier like BMW or Tesla do.


They have done that for as long as they have been internet connected.


Can one guess printers email addresses and start spamming random printers?

I dont see any way to register the sender's expected email on the printer. Back to fax spamming...?



Someone did that to my old HP printer a couple times, but there were settings to only accept emails from specific addresses that I eventually turned on.


Where do I find this email?


wait what? Any tutorial on how this works?




Mine constantly falls into some deep sleep state where it can’t be found on the network and I have to spend ~10 minutes coaxing it out of sleep using an unknown combination of random button jabs and test prints before it can be detected by my devices again and will print.

If anyone knows how to fix this please let me know, I want to love my printer as well.



Mine used to have the problem. Upgrading the firmware and using Ethernet did not fix it.

Observation: disconnecting the printer from the network avoided the un-wake-able "deep sleep" state. Re-connecting the network made it susceptible again. I suspect it's particular network traffic that causes the printer to wedge into a sleep it cannot leave; possibly a Debian box that I've since de-commissioned. The problem no longer occurs despite having the same firmware as before and being connected to the network.



Seconded. The 4 button, one line display interface is hopeless.

I print once a never, so the only answer I remember is to power cycle the little bastard.

And then I have to reboot my pc so windows 10 will find it.

There's probably a couple services I could restart instead, but reboot is fast enough I don't care.



I used to have this issue on Windows. Enabling SNMP solved it. By default it checks SNMP to see the status of the printer, so if SNMP is off it'll eventually think the whole printer is offline.


Ran into the same issue. I think using ethernet instead of wifi was the solution (and maybe something with disabling ipv6? been a long time since I looked into it).


I bought a Brother printer with a scanner at the top. No drivers, just works with the scanning software that's on macOS with zero zetup.

They've made the best scanner by refusing to innovate in that area as well.



I have a very old (more than 10 years old) Brother HL 2130 that still works like a charm. I changed the toner only twice, I added an RPi behind it to have it network-enabled. Also one of my best purchases !


Mine just works and the scanner shows up in simple-scan over wifi (Linux), it's all very smooth.


Agree, same here


I have a similar experience. Installed and connected my Brother printer 3 years ago, pop in new ink about once per year and that's it. It works and I do not need to worry about it.

Also look at the delicious Windows 2000 style settings interface:

https://i.imgur.com/YtnfaAN.jpg



I have over time switched to Brother printers (lived through Epson and HP) because they are the least bad of the bunch. But Windows will still claim they are offline with no way to un-offline them, or print jobs will still get stuck from time to time - but this is probably just the Windows printer queue software staying exactly the same since two decades, with Microsoft giving zero fucks about it (or about anything requested by users, for that matter).


I had that issue for a while. I solved this issue by ensuring SNMP was allowed on the printer. I never had that issue again after confirming SNMP traffic worked.


Restarting the spooler service often solves those problems


Until it happens again later today, or tomorrow. Or on wife's computer at work. Or on grandma's. Unless you're from Microsoft, I wouldn't call that "solution".


Well it solves it until it happens again ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯

I wasn't implying that you can't complain about it!



I have a Canon printer which I use with Windows, and I get exactly the same thing. I think your diagnosis is correct.


there is an LTT series where they try to daily drive Linux. They complain about a lot of stuff being half-broken, unfriendly or simply not missing. But they are amazed that printing just work out of the box without all the issues they have on Windows.


Because Linux uses CUPS, which is the same print server as macOS and made by Apple, Distros often ship generic CUPs drivers for printers, that work with most printers made in the last two decades.

Apple had no choice but to make CUPs support generic printing interfaces because printer companies at the time rarely made macOS drivers, and this has benefited Linux too.



Apple did not create CUPS, although they did hire the main developer (and buy the rights to the code) some years later.


My memory may be failing me, but it feels like “rarely supported” is a bit of an exaggeration. It was mostly a handful of consumer printer companies that were hell-bent on supporting nothing but Windows… I think Lexmark might’ve been one of them?

Any of the printer companies that made high end professional printers used by print designers, photographers, etc usually had Mac drivers for their entire printer lineup because Macs had a huge presence in world of desktop publishing, graphics design, and photography from most of latter half of the 80s all the way up through the 2000s.



printing from a smartphone over Wi-Fi with no extra drivers

:)



still feels like magic and it's 2023. I am regularly surprised it just works


model # please.


This is the one I’ve got - pleased with it.

Brother Compact Monochrome Laser Printer, HLL2390DW, Flatbed Copy & Scan, Wireless Printing, Duplex Two-Sided Printing, https://a.co/d/8vMWJCK



DCP-L3550CDW


Brother HL-L5200DW.


I wish that were true for my Brother printer. I bought a basic but decent black and white laser printer of theirs several years ago, and it worked great for maybe 3 years, but then it started refusing to accept print jobs from all inputs (wifi, ethernet, USB, doesn’t matter, neither does the device sending the print job) and factory resets do nothing to help it. So now, it sits in a closet while the Canon inkjet with janky print heads that it replaced is doing print duty.

Apparently this can be fixed be reflashing its firmware but from what I can gather this requires some obscure utility that’s not generally available.



> it's connected to wifi (and it just happily connects even if it's been off for a month or two), and all devices can just connect to it and print. Never need to reconnect or do anything with it. It's a printer that prints. I love it.

Wifi is the only "innovation" that I cared about when buying a new printer. My old Brother just had USB, which was fine for 12 years. But my newer (10 years old) Brother has wifi and printing from the couch is great!



WiFi is a nice feature, but instead of buying a new printer, I setup a CUPS server on old raspberry pis and turned both my and my parents’ printers into WiFi capable ones. Now our 5+ and 15+ year old printers are just as good as any new ones today.


This! It even gets regular firmware updates which (when I notice them) I always say yes to and it always keeps working. They even told me how to reset the low toner warning so I can replace colors when they actually run out.

If anything its connectivity works too well: I first connected it via USB, installed the Brother drivers (i386 only, but whatever, I don't need a 64-bit printer driver really!), and CUPS shared it over the network to all my computers. Then I added an Ethernet connection and it shared itself over the network. So now there are multiple ways to reach it.



I have the same experience - after an initial slightly tough config to get it connected to wifi (understandable given the budget price and older model), it has worked flawlessly - I will always recommend brother printers now

Further, I got mine as a refurb since I wanted it in the throes of the pandemic so I wasn't going to spend big bucks on a printer and needed something for the amazon returns labels primarily...



I have an older brother that only has ethernet, but I share it via my server, so I'm good that way. Every device that needs to print can print to it no matter the OS they're running. In this day, that is amazing. I don't have to have special apps or 4 different printers. I just have the one and it just works. This is as it should be.


I bought a brother printer once largely because of the praise I see in HN, but it was a color inkjet printer. It did not work out well. At first it was great, but I don't print much and ink dried on the print head and the 'cleaning' mode used up all the ink and and basically it never worked properly again after that. I ended up tossing it for a POS canon inkjet. I don't print often, but when I do I want color so a BW laserjet isn't a good fit.


Definitely consider the outlay for a colour laser printer. I've had one for around 5 years and it has been no trouble and is always ready to print, scan and copy.


I love my color laser, but depending on what you're printing they're either not ideal (photos) or not always possible (sublimation, transfers, some adhesives, most things involving heat; laser-specialized materials might be available but won't work as well).

Inkjet is also typically more viable for non-commercial borderless and supertabloid printing, like large prints and posters.



Does the Canon not dry up?


It can, but on the cheap canons the printhead is part of the ink canister, so if you just have to get new ink and problem solved. On the brother they use a higher quality printhead that is part of the printer. Good, unless something happens to that head and you can't fix it.


The praise is for Brother LASER printers.

It's universally coupled with a lot discussion about how much of a scam inkjet printers are from any company.

> I don't print often, but when I do I want color so a BW laserjet isn't a good fit.

.....then....buy....a Brother COLOR laser?

The levels of arrogance in "well I can just throw out more than half the advice" is breathtaking...

...and then you have the nerve to blame the community?



The mastodon post to which this discussion refers to doesn't mention the word laser, nor do most of the recommendations in the rest of this discussion.


Every person learns about printers the same way.

1) Buy a cheap inkjet printer

2) Discover it runs out of quick within ~50-100 pages

3) Learn about the distinction between laser and inkjet printing

4) Buy only Brother laser printers for the rest of your life

It's a rite of passage at this point.



A color laser is worth several cheap inkjets. I don't print much so its actually cheaper to use a crappy inkjet and throw it out and get a new crappy inkjet multiple times then get a single color laserjet.


TBH my Brother multifunction colour inkjet/scanner is also better than any I've used from any other printer manufacturer. No activation junk or "genuine cartridge" nonsense, it just prints.


Really? I thought Brother started started blocking third-party ink a couple years ago, even pushing firmware updates for older Wi-Fi printers that previously allowed it.


This is probably not a popular opinion but that is nothing special. My HP MFP M177fw laser printer has no issues at all, and if I must believe HN it's manufactured by Brother due to its well behaviour.


I love my MFC-490CW printer.

It never gets in my way, always works when I need it, is happy about the default drivers and costs me around 20€ in ink every two to 3 years.

It makes me happy to hear it once a week when it cleans itself.



I'll echo this sentiment. 3-4 years ongoing, and my Brother printer just works.

The HP laser that was replaced was finicky at the best of times.



I own a Brother DCP7065DN that I bought nearly a decade ago, and it still works just fine. I've always used third party toner (there was a setting that needed to be toggled to enable this). I can even print and scan from my phone.

All the cloud nonsense is there to enrich the manufacturers, it doesn't actually make these products better. KISS!



Which model do you have?


If you want a basic model that works over wifi and prints from your phone, get the HL-L2340DW.

If you want one that additionally has PCL 6 support for universal compatibility, get the slightly more expensive HL-L2375DW.

I have both, no regrets.



If you want color, so far I've been happy with an HLL8260CDW going on almost a year. I previously had HLL8350CDW which I very much liked even though it destroyed a fixing/fusing roller after about 5 years (repaired with ebay parts) and then at about 7 years old some small part inside a mechanism which selects between the toners broke and spares were not available. Although the part numbers are very similar between the two, sadly the toner cartridges are completely not compatible.

For a long time Monoprice sold very good Brother compatible toner for reasonable prices. Sadly, that time has long passed. Brother 1st party toner is not as cheap as I'd like but it's still decently affordable compared to other major brand 1st party toner. I've had horrible luck with non-Monoprice 3rd party Brother toner.



I just checked my purchase history and I'm a month short of it being ten years ago. Not bad for a printer.

Brother HL-3140CW. Color laser printer. If you'd have told me it'd still be working ten years later, I wouldn't have believed you. I print so sporadically, but when I do, it just works. Does AirPrint from smartphones, etc.

My only complaint with this model is that it actually has no Ethernet port, so it connects only via WiFi. Seems like a strange trade-off for something like a printer.



Have had the HL-L2340DW since 2016. Still on the original tonner. Only really use it to print my resume to bring to interviews. Still works like a charm.


I changed the original toner yesterday. Mainly use it to print out DHL shipping labels.


Thanks, very valuable information as I look into buying a small printer.


also which MFC (scanner) model? historically drivers have been an issue is this solved?


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