(评论)
(comments)

原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43461701

Hacker News 上正在讨论 Triforce,一个针对苹果硅笔记本电脑的波束成形器。用户们对其应用感到好奇,一些人想知道它是否能改善桌面语音应用的性能,以及为什么苹果公司没有针对 Mac 上已有的麦克风阵列硬件公开更高级别的 API。 有评论澄清说,苹果的波束成形是一个软件功能,因此 Asahi Linux 用户需要这个实现。用户们指出,在 macOS 上,波束成形有效地消除了背景噪音。一些人推测苹果的做法,认为这可能是为了避免专利纠纷,类似于他们的扬声器实现方式。有评论解释说,苹果的麦克风设计用于波束成形,它们非常灵敏,但却是全向的,如果没有波束成形,其作用方式与传统的定向笔记本电脑麦克风不同。其他笔记本电脑也在 DSP 中使用类似的技术,但也可以进行修改。

相关文章
  • 旭日Linux进展报告 - Linux 6.14 2025-03-21
  • (评论) 2025-03-06
  • (评论) 2024-02-15
  • (评论) 2025-03-06
  • (评论) 2023-11-25

  • 原文
    Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
    Triforce – a beamformer for Apple Silicon laptops (crates.io)
    51 points by tosh 40 minutes ago | hide | past | favorite | 13 comments












    blog post with the background story why this was created: https://asahilinux.org/2025/03/progress-report-6-14/#is-this...


    It would be great if this was implemented in a way that also other manufacturers can easily start building mic arrays such that it would make them immediately useful.


    ok noob here - what can i use this thing for? a better desktop-only voice app?

    is there a reason apple hasn't exposed a higher level api for this given the hardware (mic array) looks like it's already sufficient in macs?



    Apple did it as a software function so it's not in hardware, hence this implementation for people wanting to run (presumably) Asahi Linux.


    Looks like the ability to use MacBook mic when not using Macos


    I can't speak for this implementation, but on MacOS, the beamforming is amazing. When used in a noise office or cafe environment it eliminates background noise to an extent I can always tell if a colleague is using it or their worse headphone mic.


    For the software to perform beamforming it must be provided the discrete microphone inputs, as opposed to being provided some sort of pre-mixed feed. As such, why is Apple "trying way too hard to be fancy here" if you can just use one of those mics? Or is the alternative that they do the "beamforming" in hardware regardless of the OS?


    > if you can just use one of those mics?

    They're extremely omnidirectional and very sensitive. With a single mic with no beamforming you get basically all of the sounds from every part of the room, including and especially horribly loud sounds from (eg.) the keyboard and mouse.

    Apple selected their microphones based on the constraints their system had (beam formed array) rather than the "usual" laptop microphone which is physically not very sensitive and highly directional towards the front of the laptop, and in turn, those microphones are not particularly useful without beam forming.



    Avoiding extra coprocessor and/or avoiding patent dispute like they did with speakers (which differ from a H-K patent by not having a discrete chip implementing it)


    > Much like with the speakers, Apple are trying way too hard to be fancy here, and implement an adaptive beamformer in userspace to try and isolate the desired signal from background noise.

    Might be fancy, but it does make for surpisingly good audio from a laptops.



    Honestly, with speakers it was mainly a patent avoidance thing (patent on essentially the same thing but done with dedicated hardware, doing it with software on "application processor" bypassed the patent claims)

    A lot of similar stuff is done in firmware on x86 laptops, to the point that both AMD and Intel now share considerable portion of the stack, with both using Xtensa cores for DSP, with Sound Open Firmware as SDK. When I use built-in microphone array on my laptop, it's parsed through the DSPs "transparently" to end user.

    But technically you can load your own firmware there.



    lol






    Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!


    Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact



    Search:
    联系我们 contact @ memedata.com