(评论)
(comments)

原始链接: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43852242

Hacker News上的一篇讨论围绕着一篇被标记的文章展开,文章声称罗伯特·F·肯尼迪小儿子叫停了德特里克堡综合研究设施(Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick)一项传染病研究。评论者们就该设施“安全暂停”背后的动机展开了辩论,一些人认为这是由于“人员问题”损害了该设施的安全文化而采取的合理安全措施,而另一些人则怀疑存在 ulterior motives(不可告人的动机)或政府操控。 几位用户指出报告中“实验工作”一词的含糊不清,并质疑文章标题的耸人听闻。一些人推测,叫停可能与过去的安全事故或政治操纵有关,用户们将此事与中国此前对德特里克堡研究的担忧联系起来。讨论还转向更广泛的政治领域,一些人指责政府在卫生政策方面腐败且受意识形态驱动。文章中分享了来自arstechnica的一篇由微生物学博士撰写的文章链接,以期获得更多信息。


原文
Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
[flagged] RFK Jr.'S HHS Orders Lab Studying Deadly Infectious Diseases to Stop Research (wired.com)
70 points by rguiscard 1 day ago | hide | past | favorite | 32 comments










It's not clear to me that this story falls into the category of corrupt/insane/petty that a lot of recent actions seem to.

I don't know about this particular lab, but when someone was trying to build a BSL-4 in a dense urban neighborhood of Boston, there were a lot of protests, including by medical workers and scientists. It seemed there's a history of BSL-4 incidents, and the facilities aren't as secure as the salespeople claim.

So, it's conceivable that the stand-down is warranted. If so, a different question is whether safety is the goal, or it's merely a convenient pretext for some other goal.



"was told to stop all experimental work" - the word 'experimental' makes me wonder if the title may be hyperbolic. I don't infer from this story (article didn't feel right) that they will no longer be studying infectious diseases. Does anyone have more information on what the experimental work actually is? Or how it relates to the body of work carried out by NIAID.


“NIH has implemented a research pause—referred to as a safety stand-down—at the Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick. This decision follows identification and documentation of personnel issues involving contract staff that compromised the facility’s safety culture, prompting this research pause. During the stand-down, no research will be conducted, and access will be limited to essential personnel only, to safeguard the facility and its resources.”

Moss did not elaborate on the nature of the personnel issues..."

I'd be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if their MO wasn't to make unspecified and/or undefended accusations about persons, as a way to avoid being accountable for their agenda.



Research can broadly be divided into three categories:

1. Experimental research: Form a hypothesis. Create datapoints by some process: could be mixing chemicals in test tubes, giving patients enrolled in a study a medication, pointing a telescope at the sky, or going out to the Amazon to count bugs. Use those datapoints to confirm or refute the hypothesis.

2. Retrospective research: Form a hypothesis. Use data that already exists and is archived somewhere to confirm or refute the hypothesis.

3. Descriptive research: No hypothesis. Look at existing data and/or published research and comment on trends or the patterns that exist therein.

"Experimental" covers everything and anything you would do in a wet lab. You don't need a wet lab to do research of types 2 or 3 - you can do that in an office or at home. That said, I don't believe we have any confirmation that they used the word experimental in the actual order.



It is our good fortune that we are not restricted to the headline.

In an emailed statement provided to WIRED, Bradley Moss, communication director for the office of research services at NIH, confirmed the halt in research activity. “NIH has implemented a research pause—referred to as a safety stand-down—at the Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick.





[dead]



I don’t think it’s entirely ideological. I suspect this is a form of government capture.

Do you want the government to do anything, good, bad whatever?

You gotta pay your bribe and the folks doing it will likely be cronies.



>What the hell are they thinking?

Maybe you're not from the US, or maybe you are haven't been paying attention, but during the entire election the party that won told us this is exactly what they were going to do.



I don't think most people realized they'd be gutting all medical/health research. It's also incredibly unpopular even among the right.


I hope they remember this for local elections, and if we get another federal election


The most obvious explanation is that this was what Trump promised to RFK in order to get him to drop out of the race and endorse him. Anyone voting for Trump should have known it would mean RFK in power.


I'm not too surprised but I can see how someone who gets most of their news from conservative or even main stream sources would be surprised at how far the Trump administration is going.


> It's also incredibly unpopular even among the right.

Where are you getting that impression? Sincerely curious, it seems to me most either don't offer an opinion or are in favor. Even in this comment section (or any other similar one on HN recently) you see people more or less saying this is a correct response to some covid conspiracy theory they're into. I would love for the right to turn on trump but I frankly haven't been seeing it, over this or any other issue.



I don't think that's exactly right. I think it's more like some of them were telling us they were going to do exactly this, and the rest vehemently denied it.


I am from the US and I have been paying attention.

That doesn’t mean I understand wtf is going on in RFK Jr.’s mind.

Trump is the autocrat of the bunch. I understand his thinking. He is just the enormous parasite all the other little parasites are feeding off of, but that doesn’t explain anything. I need more information on … actually I don’t. The entire party is corrupt. There’s no way to know their rationale other than “scrambling for power” I guess.



According to the article:

This decision follows identification and documentation of personnel issues involving contract staff that compromised the facility’s safety culture, prompting this research pause.



Someone submitted this link, but it got flagged for some reason:

https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/04/rfk-jr-s-anti-vaccine...

The author of the article, Beth Mole, has a PhD in microbiology and her writing is generally detailed and pretty good. I hope he doesn't really not believe in germ theory, but if that's the case, it explains a lot of the decisions he's making.



The article title appears to be pure rage bait. Which from wired is not a surprise. That it actually induces rage on Hacker News is always a surprise to me.


I sincerely believe RFK's viewpoint is just straightforward old fashioned eugenics. He believes in "making america healthy" in that sense that if you die of something that's proof you weren't healthy.


Can you share why you believe that? I've seen him talk mainly about man made things (food dies, fast food, etc) so wouldn't have gotten to eugenics.


His statements on Autism?


What part of "I love the poorly educated!" didn't make sense to you?

(All of it? Well, yeah, can't argue with that.)



[flagged]



The banner on that page immediately turned on my bullshit-o-meter.

If you needed further proof: "There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively protected Americans from COVID-19."



The header image ("Lab Leak") makes it look like they are implying Trump leaked from a lab.


If you assume all that is true, the people you'd want to fire would be in China.


The Wuhan Institute of Virology and it's gain of function work that made coronaviruses more infectious was funded by the NIH.


So... why exactly are we attacking NIH employees for the mistakes made by people living in Wuhan?

A sufficiently nefarious interpretation of events might even implicate China regardless of how much America pays them. It already happened in Russia with Biopreparat during the Cold War, no reason it wouldn't happen again.



The Chinese can impose their own consequences, I'm not opposed to it.

However, this is serious stuff, if accountability must be off the table we aren't ready as a civilization to mess with it. NIH did this under a "enhanced oversight" regime, the overseers need to be removed to start.



The Chinese will not punish Wuhan workers any more than Russia punished Sverdlovsk anthrax workers. And since you're not going to stop virology research by halting American capital, you're proposing a net-zero solution for America and a propaganda victory for the CCP.

How can you assert that Covid v2 would be "stopped" by withholding American capital? Coronavirus isn't American IP, and even if it was, you won't use that to force accountability.



What in the actual hell is that site? Are we really moving into the stupidest timeline at mach 10?

That page title is utterly absurd.





Interestingly China just recently called out Fort Detrick and it's research goals specifically in their COVID-19 origins response white paper over this previous incident:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick...

Now from this article:

> In an emailed statement provided to WIRED, Bradley Moss, communication director for the office of research services at NIH, confirmed the halt in research activity. “NIH has implemented a research pause—referred to as a safety stand-down—at the Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick. This decision follows identification and documentation of personnel issues involving contract staff that compromised the facility’s safety culture, prompting this research pause. During the stand-down, no research will be conducted, and access will be limited to essential personnel only, to safeguard the facility and its resources.

So it's not clear that this is the result of HHS ordering NIH to do anything specific or that it will be permanent or related to planned job cuts in the future. This article seems to conflate two separate stories into one confused narrative.







Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact



Search:
联系我们 contact @ memedata.com